CT,..What`s the ring behind the throw on yours and does the crimp have a flat on it to accomodate for the ring?,...the one up top appears to have a flat on the crimp in that area but my aged eyes could be fool`n me !!

Also, the one up top has three sections to it on the tips, kinda like scales or half round separations !!

He`s also got sleves covering the t-rod threads !!

The ring behind my throw off is part of the throw off, it is in off or down position in the photo so it is sticking out to the side and looks like a ring. There are sleeves on the tube lugs but I don't see them on any photos I have of other Ludwig Deluxe's or Black Beauty's in catalogs, the Rob Cook Ludwig book or pictures from the Curatto collection so I am now wondering if those are replacement tube lugs as well. I found one picture of a Ludwig hybrid lug that had an insert from a 1941 drum but they weren't tube lugs and I don't see anything indicating that ludwig used inserts prior to that or that that they ever used inserts on any of their tube lugs at any point.

On closer inspection of the engraving it looks very wrong to me. The loop on the "L" in ludwig should be filled in as well as the tail on the "G" which is also hollow in the photo above. In my opinion, this is an old ludwig Universal model shell that has been refinished and engraved to look like something it isn't.

My mind is now screaming FAKE and stay away.

So I looked a little closer and guess what,...The one in the OP has a twelve point floral engraveing in combination with the trademark Ludwig Chicago usa,...looking at all scans and photo`s I found,..That one engraveing is a nine point floral on all authentic and advertised DeLux models with floral patterns, it never had a twelve there...eva !!

I now see fake too and stay away !!

It looks like a 1920s shell with after-market hardware...the original P-338 holes are my proof...

Mike Curotto

Just because of the two holes and what looks like turned inwards mount marks made me think real deal,...but I don`t understand seeing the three peaks above the word Ludwig. Maybe it was touched up or are they that individual ?

Mine has the three peaks over the "Ludwig" as well but it is hidden in my photo by the dream head flesh hoop. Even with that though, the engraving is still wrong as I posted and I still say fake. Still say it is a Universal shell because they were pretty much the same drum but a dishonest person could pick one of those up in rough condition for a few hundred bucks and by putting another couple hundred into it for refinishing the shell and getting the engraving done you could turn a few hundred dollars into a few thousand.

Both the one`s on this thread do not have the lines in the middle of the floral either, that`s why I asked Mike about how individual these Deluxe Models where !!

Some of the floral designs had lines and some didn't, I believe they changed a little bit every year or so which is how the age of the drum is figured.