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Amati Supraphonic!

Posts: 1040 Threads: 106
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Good day to you all!

I present you my latest catch, which has been eluding me for past year or so - an Amati Supraphonic knock-off. I was very curious about how it might sound - I have an 80s 14"x8" model, but the shell is bent and I haven't yet gotten to fixing it.

This one is 70s 14"x5", ten lugs, brass shell.

I had to replace the strainer with a newer model, the 70s one never seemed to work.

I put a new reso head and Gibraltar strainer on it and left the dirty, but still functional Ambassador on top. IT SOUNDS GREAT!! I still need to tune it more precisely, but in a quick try, it shows some great potential. Very loud and fat tone, nice sensitivity, overall pretty decent snare. Most likely not as good as an original, but decent never the less!

Feast your eyes on pictures; Note the low-contact lugs, really sloppy snare beds and the rarely preserved sticker-badge. It says "Czechoslovak music instruments, unioins' enterprise." Of course, during communism, unions were only puppets of the regime so these are just empty words.

Sysl krysu nenahradi!

-196?-72 6ply White Oyster Amati
-1960s 3ply Red Sparkle Amati
- Zildjian, Paiste, Zyn, Istanbul

http://bandzone.cz/blueswan
Posted on 11 years ago
#1
Posts: 1040 Threads: 106
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One more picture that didn't fit in the first post. Really funny way to make a snare bed.

3 attachments
Sysl krysu nenahradi!

-196?-72 6ply White Oyster Amati
-1960s 3ply Red Sparkle Amati
- Zildjian, Paiste, Zyn, Istanbul

http://bandzone.cz/blueswan
Posted on 11 years ago
#2
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I have the same drum-----very good drum. Why do you say this is a supraphonic knockoff? The only similarity , is that it is a chrome drum.

Posted on 11 years ago
#3
Posts: 1040 Threads: 106
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I think they copied the shape of the shell - the central, uh, rib, or what would you call it. It just seemed similar to me.

Sysl krysu nenahradi!

-196?-72 6ply White Oyster Amati
-1960s 3ply Red Sparkle Amati
- Zildjian, Paiste, Zyn, Istanbul

http://bandzone.cz/blueswan
Posted on 11 years ago
#4
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They used a grinder to make a snare bed? At the factory? UGH......

Posted on 11 years ago
#5
Posts: 1040 Threads: 106
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Hehe, yeah. I know, right?

But at least those beds are nice and even - something you really can't say about Amati wooden snares.

Actually, from all Amati drums from various eras I've played, this snare is probably the best manufactured and best sounding. It's really sensitive and has got a killing rimshot.

Sysl krysu nenahradi!

-196?-72 6ply White Oyster Amati
-1960s 3ply Red Sparkle Amati
- Zildjian, Paiste, Zyn, Istanbul

http://bandzone.cz/blueswan
Posted on 11 years ago
#6
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From Gilnar

I think they copied the shape of the shell - the central, uh, rib, or what would you call it. It just seemed similar to me.

There are dozens and dozens of drums out there with a domed central rib. There are also dozens and dozens of drums with no rib and dozens and dozens with multiple ribs.

The design is based on the designers preferences x the inherent strength of the material being used to make the shell . Assuming that every other drum maker in history is out to copy another maker's popular model is complete B.S. Sometimes, this may happen but more often than not the design is based on principles and concepts other than parroting.

If you look at the design of this Amati drum from the ground up, it is based on excellent engineering and design. Yes there are quirky elements, such as the t-rod heads( mine has completely unique, rectangular heads), perhaps the throwoff is a crappy design but that could be because some of the users are crappy users and don't know much about lubrication and it's relationship to functionality.

and then there are the snare beds. Those poor Amati workers in their pathetic communist country, with it's planned economy, corrupt politicians, inherent aggression against other political systems, reeling towards bankruptcy( sounds like the U.S. , actually)-----why they didn't even know how to make a snare bed, yet alone make a drum without copying . Ha Ha , what a joke .------- Well , actually, those snarebeds have been ground into the shell by an owner. The original ones were lightly pressed into the lower rounded bearing edge, and are quite elegant and precisely executed-----which is the case on the drum, that I am currently looking at.

Posted on 11 years ago
#7
Posts: 1040 Threads: 106
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Yeah, well, as I was writing it, I realized I did see some older, 30s-50s, drums from various makers with the central rib before. Ok. It was just, y'know - 70s, central rib, lugs kinda look like Ludwigs, but not really like Imperial... eh, never mind.

The t-rod heads are supposed to be rectangular. It was a unique 70s-80s Amati thing. They used classic european slotted t-rods before that. It's quite hard to get a tuning key today - many drummers swap the t-rods for regular allen screws.

About snare beds.

Actually, most of the stuff about communist economy and it's approach to copyrights and quality control is true. I suppose they would know how to make a good snare bed, but why bother, if they had no motivation? That was the case with lot of stuff manufactured at the time. In an uncompetitive economy with a state assured jobs, why try to do things better than just so-so?

ANYWAY. That's thankfully long gone - at least in my country.

I think those snare beds actually ARE factory, because they're chromed. The shell is brass and if they were aftermarket, the brass would show, but, as you see, it does not. If your snare has different beds, it might be an 80s model. The above mentioned 14x8" I have has the beds pressed (although not that precisely). Are the lugs on your drum exactly the same as on mine, or are they slightly rounded off on both ends? Could you post a photo of the back side of your strainer mechanism? The 80s model had different lever and more joints in it, whereas the 70s one, original to this particular drum, was more simple.

Another explanation could be that you have an export quality drum. It was usual to produce some more quality items only for the foreign market, to acquire foreign currency, especially US dollars, for which western know-how and western stuff for high party members would be bought.

Gee, this is getting too much into politics - probably because back then, everything was politics - sorry about it.

From calfskin

There are dozens and dozens of drums out there with a domed central rib. There are also dozens and dozens of drums with no rib and dozens and dozens with multiple ribs. The design is based on the designers preferences x the inherent strength of the material being used to make the shell . Assuming that every other drum maker in history is out to copy another maker's popular model is complete B.S. Sometimes, this may happen but more often than not the design is based on principles and concepts other than parroting. If you look at the design of this Amati drum from the ground up, it is based on excellent engineering and design. Yes there are quirky elements, such as the t-rod heads( mine has completely unique, rectangular heads), perhaps the throwoff is a crappy design but that could be because some of the users are crappy users and don't know much about lubrication and it's relationship to functionality. and then there are the snare beds. Those poor Amati workers in their pathetic communist country, with it's planned economy, corrupt politicians, inherent aggression against other political systems, reeling towards bankruptcy( sounds like the U.S. , actually)-----why they didn't even know how to make a snare bed, yet alone make a drum without copying . Ha Ha , what a joke .------- Well , actually, those snarebeds have been ground into the shell by an owner. The original ones were lightly pressed into the lower rounded bearing edge, and are quite elegant and precisely executed-----which is the case on the drum, that I am currently looking at.

Sysl krysu nenahradi!

-196?-72 6ply White Oyster Amati
-1960s 3ply Red Sparkle Amati
- Zildjian, Paiste, Zyn, Istanbul

http://bandzone.cz/blueswan
Posted on 11 years ago
#8
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The way I approach drums and musical instruments in general( I also repair/rebuild stringed instruments and some woodwinds as well) is two fold. First I look at the construction parameters-----design, materials, execution and then based on that, I do the best I can to adjust all that is adjustable, in order to maximize performance.

If a drum is made from easily found materials-------recycled lead and tin, ubiquitous mass harvested softwoods, steel where brass should be, chromed directly on steel with minimal fine polishing, soft poorly cut screws or bolts and lousy grainy wrap; then ,designed to a minimal standard and manufactured in the hastiest fashion all clearly for a burgeoning mass market ; I view it as a failure. I do what I can with it but I know the end result is going to be disappointing , irregardless of the effort I put in. AS it goes; you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. The makers of such garbage ( I actually, just described a 60's Japanese drum), have only one incentive and that is to cash in on the naivety of consumers, who have more money than brains. The focus is profit, not quality and in this particular described instance, there was no competition, so the sky was the limit as to how many units of said garbage, could be pumped out and shipped to legions of wankers in the west, who were dumb enough to pay for their crap, because they fantasized being rock stars.

At the same time, in history; Amati, Trowa, Medvecky,Duban( my apologies to others , that I have temporarily forgotten), under planned economic situations, were making drums from generally quality materials( yes there probably was recycled metal), brass for shells, finely cut threads, beech shells and the same handmade wrap that Trixon and Sonor were using across the Berlin Wall. The shells were formed and glued according to old world traditions, sometimes 10 lugs were used( a guaranteed sign that the maker was serious) and some of the most inventive original designs and engineering were applied to the hardware. The makers of these drums , made them that way because they were brilliant musical instrument makers----they were not just trying to fill an economic void for cheap consumer goods. Yes; the manufacturing side of the relationship , sometimes broke down because of lack of incentive at the worker level( but did you know, that there was a union licensed policy at British Leyland, in the 1960's and 70's to sabotage production----dropping crankshafts on the floor ,just prior to assembly etc. etc.----all in the name of union vs.corporation. In the early '70's ,Leyland was making 50.00 on an Austin Mini!). Factory incompetence, clearly exists everywhere

and it isn't unique to commies. Stifling of creativity and the pumping out of cookie cutter junk happens everywhere and in the case of percussion instruments, there has been way more of it unloaded on to the western world by accepted free market manufacturing cooperators, than there ever was on to the markets behind the iron curtain because the one incentive that the artisans in Marneukirchen , Kraslice and elsewhere had, was pride in their craft, something that extended back centuries and wasn't just a job, that was created to stuff a growing market full of unneeded goods.

Posted on 11 years ago
#9
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Do you know where I can get tension rods for the toms and some lugs for the toms and bass drum ?? Plus bass drum legs and floor tom legs !! I have the same stick on badge on my kit ! [email]albertsdrumming@gmail.com[/email]

Posted on 7 years ago
#10
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