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Advice on Building a Ringo Kit Last viewed: 2 days ago

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Hi all,

My wife's a musician and we're both into the Beatles. I'm interested in assembling a vintage Ludwig kit for her that will emulate one of Ringo's four black oyster pearl set-ups from the 1963 - 1965 period.

If you were thinking of doing this would you recommend waiting until such a kit came up or start working on acquiring it a piece at a time? I can see advantages to both, but right now I'm leaning toward the latter.

The advantages I see to this approach, besides the fact that complete kits of this nature are going to be few and far between, are:

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[*]Ability to track down some of the non-factory modifications that were on Ringo's kits like the Swiv-o-matic tom rack and Walberg & Auge bass anchor.

[*]Ability to focus first on some of the pieces that were consistent to most of the kits such as the bass pedal, snare stand, hi hat stand and cymbal stands.

[*]Flexibility to wait for a matching bass drum, rack tom and floor tom set to come along, as opposed to putting together a random set.

[/LIST]

The disadvantages are going to be time and added cost.

I know this is kind of crazy project, but if anyone's been down this road before, feel free to share your experience. Also, if anyone has components from that period they're looking to sell, feel free to drop me a line.

Thanks in advance.

Posted on 14 years ago
#1
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If you're just looking to "emulate" one of Ringo's kits, as you put it, why not just go out and buy one of the new Ludwig Legacy Classic Liverpool 4 sets? Its the correct finish, the same type of shells, very similar sound, and the look is almost (I did say almost) dead on. Plus you get a warranty with it. And its going to be much easier and cheaper to buy vs finding vintage Ludwigs in the "correct" finish that don't have cosmetic issues. Black Oyster was probably the most popuar finish during that time, but now it is arguably the most expensive in vintage circles.

To me it makes no sense to go out and find every last piece of hardware that was the exact model that Ringo used.....its lunacy if you ask me. I mean, it's not very rugged for the road, probably has even more issues now due to its age, and the "correct" stuff is EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE. Sure, its fine if its going to be a museum piece that will never be played out on a gig, but if it is...then what's the point? There's only one Ringo, and there are only 5 actual Ringo/Beatle kits in the world and they are still owned by Ringo, and neither of you are Ringo.

Now I am a big proponent of gigging with vintage kits, but in this case I say the new "replica", or tribute if you will, that is offered by Ludwig would probably be a better choice for the gigging drummer who wants the look and sound of a classic Ringo kit, but without the huge expense.

Posted on 14 years ago
#2
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Thanks for your post. All good points. "Lunacy" is not too far off the mark in some regards.

I think it boils down to an irrational love of originals. My thing is restoring old vehicles. I can buy repro parts that in many instances are better than the originals and definitely cheaper, but they just are not the same if you know what I mean. Unless a part is truly unobtainium or the lack of it is keeping me off the road, I'm content to wait for the original to come along, even if it needs some serious TLC.

I feel the same way about instruments. The contemporary guitars my wife has are real workhorses and great sounding in their own way. But there's something about the vibe when she plays her '65 Hofner or the Vox Continental that just goes right to the soul of it.

Logical? Not in the least.

Posted on 14 years ago
#3
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uoscar, do you own the Beatles Gear book? If not, it has a great deal of information on the Ringo kits. Ringo changed sizes in the time frame that you mentioned, so, you might want to check that out. That book will help you to nail down what you will need. The pictures are amazing.

Rogers early Fullerton Blue Strata 22,13,16 w/brass Dynasonic
My first kit, 1983 Ludwig Rocker? (it has the classic lugs and 4ply maple shell) 22,12,13,16 ..now in black oyster pearl. I still have it
Stop Sign USA Gretsch (80's), black nitron jasper shell 22,12,13,16
1995 Fibes Austin,Texas Badge (original owner) 22,10,12,16,18 in natural wood
USA 2007 Rosewood Gretsch 22,13,16 w/12inch 70's Rosewood Gretsch tom
Posted on 14 years ago
#4
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As far as "hard to come by", they are on ebay with astounding regularity, and expense. Just set up a permanent search for "Black Oyster Pearl Ludwig" and you will likely have no less than 100 hits per day. Most will not be even remotely appropriate as the same thing will happen, on an even larger scale, if you set your search for "Bonham, Ludwig". There are complete kits for sale at many online retailers, you can check with one our members, mlvibes, and he will know where to find one if he does not have one readily available. They are just there, but can cost, in the condition you probably are looking for, in the 2500-4000 range. And then tracking down the era correct hardware and proper cymbals, another 1000 or so. The proper names for the two most popular kits are the Super Classic and the Downbeat (I believe). Good luck in your search. You never know, you may well be contacted by someone soon looking to sell one of those kits as they show up here with some regularity.

Here are some right now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/LUDWIG-SUPER-CLASSIC-DRUM-SET-BLACK-OYSTER-PEARL-1967-/320610039467?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa5d8f6ab#ht_500wt_1156

http://cgi.ebay.com/Ludwig-Black-Oyster-Pearl-Downbeat-Set-Matching-Snare-/260684927952?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb20853d0

Just a snare

http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-LUDWIG-Ringo-BLACK-OYSTER-PEARL-5-5x14-SNARE-DRUM-/150513047873?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item230b46d941

"Ignorance may be overcome through education. Stupidity, however, is a lifelong endeavor." So, educate me, I don't likes bein' ignant...
"I enjoy restoring 60s Japanese "stencil" drums...I can actually afford them..."I rescue the worst of the old valueless drums for disadvantaged Children and gladly accept donations of parts, pieces and orphans, No cockroaches, please...
http://www.youtube.com/user/karstenboy
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Coffee...16613138379603
Posted on 14 years ago
#5
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Hello uoscar! When it comes to a passion for something, there are times when we spend way more than we should. I know, I've been there. Naturally, it's the snare drum that will cost you the most. Take a look at the eBay link provided by jonnistix for the Buddy Rich snare drum. Same drum as the Jazz Festival, but with the Classic strainer. The beauty of this drum is that the shell is already a 5.5x14. The vast majority of Jazz Festivals are 5x14. I've heard, and seen pictures, that Ringo's Jazz Fest is a 5.5x14. I've also seen the BR drum with an adapter plate to be able to use a P-83 strainer without drilling extra holes. I believe I have a picture of one. If I find it, I'll add it to this post. Good luck with whatever you decide to do!

OK, found the pictures! Again, this is a BR 5.5x14 with the Classic strainer removed and a P-83 installed on a custom bracket.

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Posted on 14 years ago
#6
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From idrum4fun

Hello uoscar! When it comes to a passion for something, there are times when we spend way more than we should. I know, I've been there. Naturally, it's the snare drum that will cost you the most. Take a look at the eBay link provided by jonnistix for the Buddy Rich snare drum. Same drum as the Jazz Festival, but with the Classic strainer. The beauty of this drum is that the shell is already a 5.5x14. The vast majority of Jazz Festivals are 5x14. I've heard, and seen pictures, that Ringo's Jazz Fest is a 5.5x14. I've also seen the BR drum with an adapter plate to be able to use a P-83 strainer without drilling extra holes. I believe I have a picture of one. If I find it, I'll add it to this post. Good luck with whatever you decide to do!OK, found the pictures! Again, this is a BR 5.5x14 with the Classic strainer removed and a P-83 installed on a custom bracket.

....actually....Ringo's first BOP snare, I was thinking we went through this a few months ago, was this snare, if the panels are set up correctly and had the Super Classic strainer.

"Ignorance may be overcome through education. Stupidity, however, is a lifelong endeavor." So, educate me, I don't likes bein' ignant...
"I enjoy restoring 60s Japanese "stencil" drums...I can actually afford them..."I rescue the worst of the old valueless drums for disadvantaged Children and gladly accept donations of parts, pieces and orphans, No cockroaches, please...
http://www.youtube.com/user/karstenboy
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Coffee...16613138379603
Posted on 14 years ago
#7
Posts: 510 Threads: 42
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Do you really want a Swivo tom mount? Expensive, bouncy, and you'll have to drill more holes in the drum. Oh, the horror! Have you played one? Even the stock rail mount's a bunch solider. And yes, Ringo did use that one, also.....

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Posted on 14 years ago
#8
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Well, you have options. It really isn't necessary to narrow those options down is it? If you're willing to go the method that sacrifices the time and cost elements, you should end up with very close to what you're after in a short period of time.

I suggest you take it as a general project where you are 1) looking for the same color and era (60s keystone badge) Ludwigs; and 2) having a detailed "dream" vision of exactly the sizes you're looking for (Like the 22/13/16/JF configuration with 20/18/14hats cymbals, etc. Flat based cymbal stands, W&A snare stand, ec.

You're asking us to reduce your flexibility in getting your desired set together; but I'd suggest you keep that flexibility as a playing card on your search. In other words, you might find a reasonably-priced single rack tom or something, and then stumble on a complete set. You need flexibility to achieve the goal, so you're going to get the set then sell off the rack tom you bought or something, right? So, I'd suggest keeping your eyes open, and searching locally as well to see if you can't find a good deal somewhere where it isn't already globally marketed. You could luck out. If you're really reasonable and flexible you might be willing to even procure a same-era (and therefore same sound) set that is in a different color.

But Jonni's correct, they're available, just highly sought-after. This was the most popular color because of the Ringo connection but it is also the most sought-after too. It is the ideal collector's color because it is a beautiful color, they produced lots of them, AND many, many more than normal are looking for them as well.

Don't hold your breath, though. I stumbled on a few gems over the past 10 years or so, and they were great deals. But I'm hunting around quite a bit, and that is a long time to be looking.

When you consider the price they go for, and the price of a fine-quality brand new set, an original "Ringo" set might actually still be a reasonable value compared to say, a '59 sunburst Les Paul. For this reason, if you're serious about having some drums, and this is the only option, you could forgo the hunt altogether and just buy it from a reputable eBay seller or something at the current market value. If you want to you could run it by a forum member to see if we think it is really an original item and the seller isn't a flake or something. Then you could make the purchase of the drums minus the snare or even the entire set with the snare and buy the cymbals and stands or whatever--but it's probably going to cost you..

Like if you want to buy a rust bucket and restore it, or buy a pretty-good-original 67 chevelle. Same thing.. only different.

Lastly, I would worry about the non-original mods LAST, rather than FIRST. Those things are much easier to find and generally much cheaper and easier to add on, compared to finding those BOP Ludwigs. I'm more about the sound than the look so if it were me, I'd go for a different color and try to get some calfskin heads or whatever Ringo used on stage and in the studio to achieve that sound. Usually when I'm looking at a bass drum that is otherwise original and un-drilled, I will shy away from drilling it for a Rogers mount or whatever even if that's what Ringo (and other drummers in the 60s) did to their drums. I'm just more of a purist. That means refraining from drilling a perfectly-good 60s vintage drum. "Friends don't let friends drill." But once you get them, if that's what gets you off, they're your drums.. As long as you disclose honestly what you did to them when it comes time to selling.

Posted on 14 years ago
#9
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Thanks to all for your input. Some really good advice here.

Super B, "Beatles Gear" is a great book and definitely one of the main sources I'm using to acquire background info.

jonnistix, thanks for the links. I've been watching ePay for a while not only for the drums themselves, but also for the general education about construction, dates, values.

idrum4fun/jonnistix, good input on the snare. I've been reading that this can be one of the rarer (and more expensive) components to obtain in the kit.

crash, I definitely am looking to avoid drilling. (Its equivalent in car restorations is when previous owners take a torch to "modify" things.) If I end up getting a BD that is in need of restoration and already has modifications, then I'd consider it.

Pounder, thanks as well for your input. I think in terms of the general strategy, once I feel comfortable in my knowledge of the components I'll probably work on getting the stands, pedals and other hardware while I keep an eye out for the drums themselves. I agree that keeping options open is a good strategy. While the black oyster pearl finish is both famous and aesthetically pleasing, there are some other appealing choices, such as my wife's favorite: champagne sparkle.

Again, thanks to those who have posted here as well as sent PMs.

Posted on 14 years ago
#10
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