https://books.google.com/books?id=52EIhR-N1MUC&q=ply#v=snippet&q=ply&f=false

https://www.google.com/search?biw=994&bih=441&ei=OvcQXejxC4LW5gK55brYDA&q=chet+falzerano+gretsch+book+4+ply&oq=chet+falzerano+gretsch+book+4+ply&gs_l=psy-ab.12..33i160.828.2477..5967...0.0..0.281.1076.0j5j1......0....1..gws-wiz.......33i299.kC-02yNgwxM

there was mention of a 4 ply in the Gretsch Book early on

Sounds like you are describing a 3ply shell as that thin mahogany "coating" would be considered a "ply" if it's wood.

Most 3 ply shells use two very thin plies over a fatter core, which is one reason most have re-rings. Gretsch staggered the seams to avoid needing rings.

Back in those days no drummers were paying particular attention to the types and layups of the "wood" in their shells so there would have been some leeway to experiment...like , for example, Slingerland's masonite shells.

I had seen this shell only two other occasions, and it was always a 6x14 6 lugs! the mahogany outer coating is a very thin sheet less than a millimeter, like a wrap, it does not seem to have a reinforcement function, the same thickness as the standard 3 ply here is obtained by 2 ply ... maybe a manufacturing technique that lasted a very short period, inside very dense covering silver sealer with no label

Sounds like you're describing the Dixieland snare (6 lugs) which was a cheaper model and sometimes they did cut corners on them to keep the price down. I guess my point was that if you have three pieces of wood laminated together (no matter the thickness or how they effect the structure) then there are technically three plies. I believe the standard Gretsch 3 ply was maple/poplar/maple (which the modern Broadkaster series of Gretsch drums replicates). Gum came on the scene when Jasper started subcontracting shell production in Indiana which was when they went to a 6 ply. Some say that Gretsch also bought shells from Keller when Jasper was behind in production. Probably true but it kind of messes with the legend. I know I have a sixties 6 ply Gretsch floor tom where the outer ply is thin mahogany. It may have originally been intended to become a mahogany finish marching drum but was wrapped instead. The mahogany, though thin, still is the 6th ply of the shell. It's very possible that if the mahogany finish marching drums weren't selling they'd cut down the shells, wrap 'em, and ship them out as Dixielands or maybe even Name Bands

This is a picture of the cross section of a Ludwig shell, which I suppose has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic at hand (I don't have any pictures of a Gretsch 3 ply handy) but does show just how thin the two "tone wood" plies are in relation to the poplar core. In this case they are both mahogany but the maple ones are just as thin (which is why I don't really agree when someone describes a three ply Ludwig as "maple Ludwigs").

Not arguing the point, just throwing stuff out there for spirited debate ;)

yes I understand what you mean and technically you're right, like for the 3 ply Slingerland but if you know the 3 ply standard Gretch always has about this proportion

[IMG]http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=125947&stc=1&d=1561438600[/IMG]

and is always one of gum that remains very dark even black and is a very dense wood, within two of maple

Kent made 2 ply shells. Actually though it was a single ply wrapped around itself.

This is true , they were thin maple and were 2 ply for the snares and mounted toms , The bass drums and floor toms were 6 ply and still one continuous sheet . No re rings ...