Hoppy - I read your post. Ok, so I go downstairs to write down the serial number on the bronze supra and guess what? There is no number on the badge! It's a Monroe style Keystone that says Ludwig across the top and has Chicago, Ill at the bottom. But no number either screened or stamped on it anywhere. You ever hear of that? Badge with no number?

I got the year of manufacture from an article I read that stated that the Monroe style keystones with Chicago on the bottom were only used in 1984 for about 6 months, right before the move to Monroe.

You got me man. I don't know what it means that the badge has no number. Go figure Ludwigs' cataloging system anyway! Number or no, it's hands down one of the best sounding/playing snare drums I have ever owned.

John

Hmmmm....

On the badge Idnetification page, http://www.vintagedrumguide.com/ludwig_badges.html#

I got this......

This was a transition badge and you will see it with and without a serial number it is prior to and during the move to Monroe. This badge was covered by the hoop and normally is not cut on the top. It was on a 1985 snare drum.

[IMG]http://www.vintagedrumguide.com/images/badges/ludwig/keystone_transition.jpg[/IMG]

Mid 1980's to present Ludwig Keystone Badge. The serial numbers on these badges do not work on any serial number guides.

[IMG]http://www.vintagedrumguide.com/images/badges/ludwig/keystone_1980_present_large.jpg[/IMG]

Ludwig...Gotta' love 'em!!!

I do recall see the larger hammer marks on the earlier version of drum, prior to the shift to the smaller stippling. I want to say I got this drum in December '85 or '86. Here's a pic of the badge too.

[IMG]http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=31520&stc=1&d=1312245410[/IMG]

I have the top badge, Hoppy. Mine isn't cut like that one is, but it's the same badge. And yes, it was my understanding that the earlier versions had larger hammering patterns and that the small stipple came later. The large hammer pattern on the shell is what got me excited enough to pull the trigger on it.

Thanks for your input, Hoppy. It's been educational.

Ludwig! Oy vey! (They make some great drums though...)

John

PS - I forgot to mention; I added the Millennium strainer myself. The P-85 that came with the drum is a piece of crap. Never liked it. I stopped liking Ludwig strainers when they changed away from the brass P-83.

I saw that Millennium! I don't dig that P-85 either. I'm a huge fan of the newer P-87's... it's solid and has that old school look.

For reference, here's mine from '93 bottom left:

[IMG]http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=37214&d=1290155834[/IMG]

That's a beauty Latz, small stipple hammering or large?

How does it stack up against your other snares? How do you rate the drum? And did you add die-cast hoops or did it come with them?

John

I've got a pic of just the 'Wig somewhere. I'll dig it up.

As far as rating it, I'm not sure how or where to begin. Most of what I have is for different sounds. For example, my 3 Sonor cast bronze drums (4, 6, & 8 depths) have a throaty sound that I really like. By contrast, the Ludwig is a bit warmer. The Ludwig is warmer than the Segmented purpleheart on top of it, but that's the nature of purpleheart. The red one is an 8-ply Keller shell and the other segment is made of cocobola.

I think my first post describes my feelings best about the Ludwig hammered bronze.

I ordered it with a top die cast as they had stopped offering bottom DC's by then. I then happened to stumble across one in a GC shortly after I got it, so I snagged it. It just didn't look right (symmetrical) with only one DC.....

Here's a pic of my very dirty Hammered bronze...

Looks like the smaller hammering..

[Attachment: 31612]

Man I'd like to put our two snares together, put the same heads on em, tune em both to the same pitch and then see if there is -any- difference that can be heard in the sound of the drums. Would be an interesting experiment.

John

Sounds like a roadtrip!!

Better yet, I'll send mine to you, but you have to clean it before sending it back..... Eye Ball