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1980's Camco

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Antipodes - thanks for all of that clarification. Been doing a lot of reading on this site and a few others. You nailed it when you said this period is murky.

Sounds like there isn't a possibility to determine the shell maker. Also - the seams are vertical if that means anything.

Is there a definitive way to determine the type of wood?

There is a re rim around the toms. So looking at it - it appears to be 6 ply + 3 ply with the re rim. Was this to make them stronger and more durable or because the 6 plys were on the weak side?

Ill post some more details pictures when I get some time.

Really appreciate the insight. Thanks again!

Stu

Posted on 9 years ago
#11
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Here are a few adds (1979 I'm pretty sure) for the 1st generation Hoshino badge Camcos. I had this exact kit until a few months ago with the hand inlay in bop sizes. Six ply American maple, as the add states. No re-rings as the plys made at the Bensalem, PA plant were plenty thick enough to keep the shells in round. These drums were top of the line and meant to compete with the best Ludwig, Rogers and Slingerlands had to offer. They sound fantastic and the hand inlay was absolutely gorgeous.

I'm going to assume the your shells with the re-rings were left over Camcos assembled who knows where, it's impossible to tell. I do know the kit I had is from the PA plant. Hope this helps.

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/agopsalott/CamcoAdd2.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/agopsalott/CamcoAdd.jpg[/IMG]

Here's the inside of the 14 floor.

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/agopsalott/-6-6.jpg[/IMG]

And the kit with original heads.

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/agopsalott/IMG_6844.jpg[/IMG]

Posted on 9 years ago
#12
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Agopsallot, the inlayed Tama/Camcos looking precisely like the Tama Artwoods which the general consensus, even amongst Tama collectors, says are primarily birch even if the catalogues said maple (because Tama catalogues from the period are notoriously wrong, apparently). This error has been repeated as gospel more or less since (see this ad for an Artwood snare).

http://www.classicvintagedrums.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_133&products_id=868

That aside, the "murky" part comes in when the occasional person who's owned both LA Camcos and Tama Camcos claiming they're precisely the same shells (down to the re-rings). Without having made that side by side comparison, I can't say whether this is correct or not. There's just not that many of them around.

Slingalud, where is the primary source information out there? I keep looking and I see a lot of second and third hand sources relating what someone told them. I'm not saying it's not out there, I'd just like to find that actual definitive source - like someone who worked at the Pennsylvania site (someone claiming to be just that turned up in here once then promptly disappeared) or was doing sales for the new Tama owned Camco.

The "ads" look like editorial stuff from a magazine (Modern Drummer maybe) and as such are probably just re-written from a press release. If there's a mistake or exaggeration in the press release (Tama trying to underline their "quality"), the story is likely to contain the same sort of thing - I'm guessing drum journalism isn't that rigorous about its fact-checking.

Posted on 9 years ago
#13
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Wow - this is terrific stuff. Thanks everybody.

Here is what I learned so far:

They are definitely maple. Or Birch.

Re rings - Prob. means the shells weren't made in Penn.

Undersized diameters. Similar to DW.

I should enjoy 79/80 Camco's - wherever they were made.

(I do enjoy them. I get lots of compliments on the 24" bass Drum. I can tune the 13" tom really well, the 14" gives me challenges. the 18" floor tom sounds like a tympani - lol)

Nice work guys!!!!

Stu

PS - Still looking for a 16" floor tom if anyone ever runs across one.

Posted on 9 years ago
#14
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Yeah, enjoy them. All the rest is trainspotter stuff (though I clearly am one).

Posted on 9 years ago
#15
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I humbly bow to your greatness! LOL!

Seriously - thanks for all of that fantastic information. Gives me a little provenance. Really appreciate it!

Stu

Posted on 9 years ago
#16
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Adding a few more pics...

Close ups of re-rings, a few badge pics, etc.

Stu

Posted on 9 years ago
#17
Posts: 763 Threads: 110
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Stu,

This is all very interesting. Thanks for all those pictures and great info,...

What vastly differentiates the 1970's LA Camco Keller shells from all the others are the edges.

During those last years, Camco did a unique sharp rounded cut from both sides. On the first picture you can see how they look from a side-angle. It would be interesting to get a close up of the edge from your kit.

About the shell-thicknesses and diameters, I tried to do some accurate measurements a while ago and compared the 1960's Jasper shells to the later Keller shells from the 1970's.

The measurements in thickness from the 6-ply Jasper shells varied between 0,201 and 0,208 inch. The 6-ply Keller shells readings gave a number between 0,199 and 0,206 inch.

To measure the diameters, I put the shells on a flat table top, used a measuring triangle and placed it as accurate as I could on the opposite sides of each shell.

The outer diameter from both the 13” shells are exactly the same and measure 12,83 inch.

The 16” Jasper shell measures 15,89 inch and the 16” LA Keller shell is 15,87 inch.

In other words, the Camco shells are identical even though they came from a different manufacturer and another era.

The general misconception that the LA Keller shells are extra-undersized comes from the fact that the top of the edges are leaning inward. This allows the heads to float freely on the top-edge and guarantee most-optimal contact with any drum-head you would choose. This explains LA Camco's legendary ease of tuning, versatility and unmatched resonance. Notice the big gap between the drum-head rim and the outer edge of the shell on the second picture.

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Posted on 9 years ago
#18
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Gorgeous kit sshader, really top quality, obviously high-end drums that will probably become more valuable and sought out in 20-30 years by all the Tama players out there that will want to dig deeper as they age.

Antipodes you really nailed it on the Camco history, very muddy water indeed! Maybe company transition and survival was the top priority over record keeping...

For interest sake here's a pic of my 1979 Camco "Tombstone" badge. Its the same as the "Jones kit". Serial numbered paper tags inside. the serial numbers really mean nothing at this point. The clear finish reveals birch, even though the catalog claims maple. Its six ply without re-rings. The bearing edges are a nice 60 degree round-over, which as stedi says provide ease of tuning. Really nice shells, made from Pennsylvania birch...who knows? Did Keller make a birch shell at the time. The mysteries go on..lol

This kit includes the 12,13,16 and 18" bass. The gloss finish on these is high-end and is still a nice high-gloss with no signs of age. Tama/Camco made a big attempt with the '79, '80 kits to enter the pro. jazz drummer market as evidenced by the shell sizes and using Jones as an endorser. The little 18" bass is an awesome instrument!

-kellyj

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"It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing..."
Posted on 9 years ago
#19
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Stedi - Thanks for that explanation. I will take another pic on Wed. LOL - My bandmates keep asking me why am I taking so many pictures of my drum set. LOL!

kellyj - Thanks for the kind words and insight. You have a wonderful set too. You made me think - I guess I need to refer to them more that way as Tama/Camco rather than just straight Camco's.

What if I take the drum to a cabinet maker or someone? Could they tell me what kind of wood definitively?

Posted on 9 years ago
#20
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