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1976 Ludwig Classic Maple kit, any info?

Posts: 5176 Threads: 188
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Let's make an analogy about 3-ply and 6-ply shells:

A saxophone player has many choices for what kind of mouthpiece to use. There are hard rubber mouthpieces (or even wooden mouthpieces) and different chamber shapes that react to the flow of air differently than others. There are also metal mouthpieces which are much brighter and more articulate than the others.

The choice of which sound better applies itself is subjective and up to the individual player to determine. Ludwig 3-ply shells lend the extra warmth I like -akin to a hard rubber or wooden mouthpiece for a saxophone. The 6-ply shells for a drum are more like a metal mouthpiece for a saxophone. They are brighter and more articulate.

I also own a set of drums with some of the thickest production wood shells ever made -Arbiter 12-ply! (all maple) to contrast with my 3-ply Ludwig sets. What happens is that the Arbiter shells are so thick and stiff, they don't get involved in the vibrational energy. They efficiently reflect the sound into the drumheads and out of the drum. They don't eat up that energy input the way a lightweight 3-ply shell does. Thus, they can be tuned much lower AND much higher. The entire effective tuning range is widened.

A Ludwig 3-ply shell is "soft" by comparison. They are made mostly of softer, lighter-weight poplar wood with just two very thin veneers of mahogany and maple. So, when you hit them, those soft shells wick off a lot of the input energy and the entire drum kind of "radiates" the sound when struck.

Since most modern drums went with the no-re-rings formula to facilitate manufacturing needs better, the thicker, multi-ply shells became extremely ubiquitous in the industry -across the board, until it got to the point that they were all you could get. The sounds of drums across the board became much more h o mogenous, too. Everybody started using the same drum building formulas. This eventually made the old ways of the 3-ply shell more "unattainable" to people who were seeking something apart from what the modern industry was producing after awhile. And everyone always wants what they can't have! Now, everybody wants the old 3-ply shells again -so much so, that Ludwig has re-released the Legacy line of drums -at nearly 5 times the amount of money that you would pay for a vintage 3-ply set! Go figure that one! (Actually, it's easy. The 3-ply shells are MUCH more expensive to make! -that's why they went away. It simply cost too much to continue making them that way and remain competitive in the industry.)

And that's another reason (completely apart from the sound factor) related to the 3-ply shells is that they are much more desirable to collectors and hold their value much better than the 6-ply shells.

:Santa:

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 15 years ago
#11
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True, so true....but the 6-plys days of collectability are coming! I own both and prefer the 6-plys for recording, and the 3-plys for live gigs, mainly because they are so light! LOL! The Band

Posted on 15 years ago
#12
Posts: 5176 Threads: 188
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Yeah, no kidding! Ilove the lightweight shells for gigging, too!

But, you know what? When it comes right down to it, there are SO many reasons to like drums. It's not just the tuning range or which set applies itself better to a job than another set. It's also how the drums look -their style. It's how you feel when you play them or look at them. It's the shape of the spurs and the lugs and the color -ALL those things. Sometimes, it might have very little to do with the sound. Some drums are like sculptures to the people who own them. I know I find myself staring, glaze-eyed at the red or blue or gold sparkle drums like they are crystal balls showing me the past. It's the "Gestalt" of vintage drums that gets me -not just how they sound. And, IF there is such a thing as "mojo" or "vibe" that can be attached to such objects, then vintage drums have those things for me.

3-ply shells for me when it comes to Ludwig!

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 15 years ago
#13
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First off, pics:

spur, plus view of a hole

comfy pillow mount (plus socks to compensate for the depth diff

comfy pillow mount again

Hmm, thanks for the links to those catalogs and thanks everyone for all the help! Interesting stuff. I'll do some digging and try to get a memory lock.

I have always hoped I would be able to find a 16" tom to go with it, I wonder if I ever will >.< . It does look like it could be that "Rock Machine" kit, although the spurs are diff. The kit I have is 13/14/18, I'm still not sure if it should be listed depth or diameter first as I've seen it both ways. Sorry for the confusion.

Do you think it's worth trying to get a hold of the previous-previous owner and see if he maybe knew about the model and such? I wonder if he has any clue though (he apparently was entirely oblivious as to the worth of the K, for example).

The previous owner apparently had some sort of snare that went with the kit, although he presumably doesn't own it anymore as he gave/sold me everything drum related he had. I could maybe ask him, I guess. He said he didn't like the snare so he went to some drum convention and got that non-Supra Ludwig bronze snare right as they launched it (it's got the black/white badge but I think it's still a fairly solid drum). Since he went out and got a metal snare, I'm assuming the snare that it had wasn't a really nice Supraphonic or anything.

As for the 3 vs 6 ply stuff, I'm actually a sax player myself... I definitely prefer hard rubber mouthpieces. :p I've seen those Legacy kits, sickeningly high prices! I've read that the thicker ply is more versatile just in terms of projection, but that makes little sense to me as you should be micing up for gigs so the natural volume of the drums shouldn't matter that much, right?

Posted on 15 years ago
#14
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Sounds like you may have answered the mystery of which kit. If the previous owner sold the original snare and it was a 14 x 6 1/2 Supra that would make it the rock machine. Perhaps he didn't like the deep sound of the 6 1/2". Arena rock & hair bands used those alot in mid 70's thru 80's for that reason. Not sure about the spurs. Are they original or have they been replaced? Looks like the new type.

RC

Posted on 15 years ago
#15
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Yeah not to ding on the previous guy (really great dude and knew he was giving a deal), but he was a very novice drummer and didn't really know or research much. I guess either way the old snare is gone as I really doubt he would keep it, although I suppose I could ask. The other possibility is that previous-previous guy just kept the Supra himself and when he sold it gave some other random snare!

I guess the deep Supraphonics aren't meant to be versatile, just loud and sensitive?

Anyway the past guy went to buy another crash, went in, and the one he liked the sound of best was an old Scimitar crash/ride (mind you, pretty solid for a sheet cymbal, its thick/Z-esque build makes it not as terrible as you might expect)... but he did pick the Scimitar over all the other cymbals they must have had so I don't know if he had a super-developed ear.

The spurs I'm assuming were added later, as all the ones in the catalog are the curved type, and there are those holes where I would imagine the spurs should have gone. Do those newer-type spurs usually require some sort of rubber foot? (Another part to get a hold of, presumably)

Posted on 15 years ago
#16
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Yes, there are feet for those. See page 24 of the parts catalog. You will need 2 of item #11, P-1989 Knurled Nut & 2 of item #12, P-1995 Threaded Tip.

RC

Posted on 15 years ago
#17
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