As a follow-up to zenstat's post, I have a cut-badge B/O Super-Sensitive dated November 16, 1971.

There are Blue/Olive badges without serial numbers on several drums from several different time periods. The largest concentration of these seems to be on drums with date stamps in the September/October 1970 time frame. See this thread for more detail - http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=56807. Additional details are in my guide and as zenstat comments, I continue to gather additional examples of drums with blank badges.

I started the thread I mention above in an effort to identify more drums from the September/October 1970 time frame so that I could possibly expand the information available on the topic. So far, not a lot to report.

I do not have an explanation for why these blank badges exist or why they were used during particular time frames. I am trying to document the occurrences so that we can gain insight into the larger questions.

At the risk of derailing this thread further, my main questions on this topic are:

1. Why did drum companies actually start placing serial numbers on drums? Insurance regulations, federal law and customer requests are all discussed as the reason for serial numbers, but I have not yet found formal documentation any of these requirements. Many manufacturers of brass, woodwind and stringed instruments applied serial numbers as early as the 1800s. Gretsch made guitars and drums in the same building, but guitars received serial numbers starting just before WWII, while drums did not until about 1962. Each drum company added serial numbers at different times (Rogers - about 1953; Gretsch - about 1962; Slingerland - 1962; Ludwig - late 1963/early 1964). This does not seem like a uniform response to a law, regulation or insurance company requirement. (Note that while there is a high correlation between date stamp and serial number, the relationship is not absolute and exceptions exist. There are also drums with switched badges and faked date stamps which can muddy up the situation.)

2. If serial numbers were required (see Question 1), then:

a. How did smaller manufacturers and importers sell drums in the US without serial numbers?

b. How did blank badges (no serial number and trimmed badges) get produced by Ludwig?

c. How did Ludwig sell small numbers of drums without badges?

d. How did Slingerland produce snare and bass drums with badges with serial numbers and toms and floor toms without badges at all?

I do not yet have the answers to the above questions, but these things seem inconsistent with any mandate requiring serialized identification of drums.

Thanks for all the great information. When I get my 1970 Supraphonic, I will report the date. I will also buy the book.

zenstat,

I was going to mention cymbals as well, but did not possess the information about when serialization was implemented. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and insight.

I think the main source that gets quoted about the introduction of serial numbers to drums is Ned Ingberman's September 2002 DRUM! magazine article "How to Date 1960's Ludwig Drums by Serial Number." (Reprinted in June 4, 2015 Not So Modern Drummer - http://www.notsomoderndrummer.com/not-so-modern-drummer/columns/ned-ingberman/how-to-date-1960s-ludwig-drums-by-serial-numbers)

"This new surge in Ludwig’s production and sales coincided with a new government regulation enacted at about the same time (The regulation was brought to our attention by drum historian/insurance agent, Harry Cangany)....Prompted by the insurance industry, the new regulation mandated serial numbers on certain goods including drums. 'Up until then,' said Mr. Ludwig, 'some of our drums were date stamped and some weren’t – but none had serial numbers. Our dealers begged us to put them on, so we had our badge manufacturer imprint sequential numbers on the badges for all of our drums.'”

Note that in one paragraph, three different impetuses for serial numbers in Ludwig drums are identified - insurance industry prompts, federal government regulation and dealer begging. No wonder people are a little confused.

I wonder why this regulation/requirement/request would not have been applied universally and absolutely, as drums without unique serial number identification continued to be sold in the US. This includes imports and small US manufacturers like RMC-FlatJacks and Kent. I have owned a few FlatJacks and saw no indication of serial numbers, even though other divisions of the Reynolds Music Company produced brass instruments with serial numbers. I am not aware of Kent using serial numbers on their American made drums or their later Japanese made ones.

Ludwig Standards produced in the 1968-1973 time frame also generally had serial numbers on their badges, but many examples of drums with blank badges have been identified. Based upon their date stamps, these blank badge Standards do not appear to align in time to the September/October 1970 blank badge main line Ludwigs.

Still seeking information on this topic.

My Supraphonic is dated September 29, 1970 and has the full blue olive badge.

Pictures attached. Thanks for the help.

Jim

Thanks for the pictures. I have another similar drum recorded - same date, same type of blank badge, same 5x14 size, same throw. I learned about it in August on another forum. Did you buy your drum from someone in Virginia? I am just trying to determine if this is the same drum or just similar.

I wanted to add something to my earlier post (#15 on this thread):

John Aldridge mentions on page 70 of his Guide to Vintage Drums that Ludwig began to use serial numbers in response to a government regulation. This was written in 1994, so predates the Ingberman article by eight years. I just sent an email to Mr. Aldridge asking him about the origin of the information. In the last few weeks I contacted Ned Ingberman and Harry Cagnany and neither could provide a citation for a law or regulation. I searched federal statutes and regulations from 1962 and 1963 and have not found anything relevant.

I bought the drum recently on eBay from a person in Houston, Texas. I am very happy with the drum. I think it's in great shape for its age and what I paid. I think if he had an auction he would have gotten a lot more money. He was really helpful and sent me a lot more photos when I stated getting serious about the drum. I live in Virginia.

KC

Thanks very much for all of the research you have done. It is helpful and interesting.