This is a 20" cymbal with only the engraved signature as shown. Difficult to identify. Does anyone have any thoughts as to what it might be?

The makers very kindly wrote the company name under the bell:

K Zildjian & Cie (or possibly & Co -- Bill Hartrick may know but I've never been sure which version of Company it is).

You will find it easier to pick up the K at the beginning if you turn your "signature" photo the other way up, but I kept mine in the same orientation as yours because that makes the sticker the right way up for legibility.

It is uncommon for these to escape the factory without a pressed in die stamp. Uncommon but not unheard of. I see a white circle on your photo of the top as if somebody thought there might be a pressed in die stamp trademark there. Given the look of this cymbal I'd expect the die stamp trademark to be further out towards the edge, but again that's just a generalization from examining a few hundred of these.

Originally Posted by DH250

This is a 20" cymbal with only the engraved signature as shown. Difficult to identify. Does anyone have any thoughts as to what it might be?

By the way, the signature is not engraved, it's signed, presumably by the craftsman who made the cymbal

I'm not up-to-date on my vintage Zildjians, but that cymbal will be worth a fair amount.

That matches a Hartrick Old Stamp Type III. Here's a link into my interactive key for identifying these:

http://black.net.nz/old-k/old-k-3.html

I'd say it is a closest match to the Hartrick Type IIIc Old Stamp:



Expected prices for Old Stamps in this diameter are

Old Stamp: Expected median price $1290 with half selling for between $965 and $1600 n=26

Detailed price and weight analysis is here: http://black.net.nz/old-k/old-k-prices.html#20

Originally Posted by BosLover

By the way, the signature is not engraved, it's signed, presumably by the craftsman who made the cymbal

I've long wondered about this presumption that it is "the craftsman". I thought each cymbal was made by a few people in a factory setting. One does the casting, one the hammering, another the lathing. Then the supervisor comes along at the end of the process and writes the company name (not a signature sensu stricto) underneath. Are you familiar with any specific evidence that there is such a thing as "the craftsman" suggesting that there was one person who was the sole person to hammer and lathe one particular cymbal in the K Zildjian Istanbul factory?

Originally Posted by zenstat

That matches a Hartrick Old Stamp Type III. Here's a link into my interactive key for identifying these:

http://black.net.nz/old-k/old-k-3.html

I'd say it is a closest match to the Hartrick Type IIIc Old Stamp:



Expected prices for Old Stamps in this diameter are

Old Stamp: Expected median price $1290 with half selling for between $965 and $1600 n=26

Detailed price and weight analysis is here: http://black.net.nz/old-k/old-k-prices.html#20

Yes, definitely a match ("saxophone" design. I did my reading). I came to the right place for information, thank you. I will be posting questions about other vintage instruments as well.

Zenstat is right that the inked cursive writing here is not a true signature, but as he said it says "K. Zildjian & Co". The term "signature" is a misnomer that stuck because it actually looks a lot like one. It was only fairly recently that I got the real story about this from Mehmet.

Originally Posted by zenstat

I've long wondered about this presumption that it is "the craftsman". I thought each cymbal was made by a few people in a factory setting. One does the casting, one the hammering, another the lathing. Then the supervisor comes along at the end of the process and writes the company name (not a signature sensu stricto) underneath. Are you familiar with any specific evidence that there is such a thing as "the craftsman" suggesting that there was one person who was the sole person to hammer and lathe one particular cymbal in the K Zildjian Istanbul factory?

I intended craftsmen as a more generic term, meaning it was hand inscribed by someone on the staff rather than stenciled or stamped. But now I'm wondering how such a fine inscription was placed so clearly on a cymbal years ago. In other words how was it actually written, with no smearing, onto metal? I'm guessing any given cymbal was manufactured by several different people and inscribed by one of them. A production line certainly would be a more efficient process when turning out quantities of cymbals, but I'm also guessing that most of them could, and possibly did, occasionally manufacture a cymbal from ingot to finished product. For some, the term factory setting might conjure up some fairly modern-looking facility with an assembly line. From the photos I have seen, these factories look more like a cottage industry from the Renaissance, a bunch of guys sitting on stools in a minimalist room hand hammering bronze over a form.

I was told that is was Mikael himself who did this, or in his abscence it was the foreman. And it's written in Latian Script.

As for the ink, I've often wondered about that myself. It must have been a special type of ink that had an affinity for metal or maybe for bronze specifically. It was definitey not your run of the mill ink pen type ink though, because that only bubbles up and smears off.