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  #1  
Old 03-03-2019, 07:28 PM
Marty Black Marty Black is online now
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Default Question on spring tension - Ludwig 1124 Atlas hi hat

Say guys, I've got a 1976 vintage Ludwig Atlas model 1124 hi hat. This is the one with the round plastic thumbwheel that you move to "increase tension." The internal spring seems to be getting weak, because the hi hat doesn't spring upward as fast as it used to. It's getting sluggish.

I've turned the plastic wheel to the left to "increase tension," but really don't see any noticeable change.

I haven't yet taken it apart to understand the mechanics of what the wheel actually does, but I was wondering if someone can help me understand this adjustment. In other words, am I increasing the tension on the spring, or something else?

And does Ludwig or anyone else sell a replacement spring, if mine is just plain worn out after so many years?

Sorry for what some may consider a dumb question. Thanks in advance.
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Old 03-03-2019, 10:29 PM
K.O. K.O. is offline
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Default Re: Question on spring tension - Ludwig 1124 Atlas hi hat

I have several of those and I have never been able to turn that knob (either metal or nylon) enough to make any noticeable difference. Others have said they have been able to adjust the tension via that knob but it has never helped me. Still my all time favorite Hi-Hat stand. Just lucky that the default feel always seems perfect to me. Same with the non-adjustable 1123-1, it just feels "right".

There are a couple of small allen head screws under the knob you back out to get that knob assembly out Your best bet would probably be to stretch the spring out a bit or replace it.
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Old 03-04-2019, 01:04 PM
woody1953 woody1953 is offline
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Default Re: Question on spring tension - Ludwig 1124 Atlas hi hat

This parts diagram should help.
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__________________
1968 Ludwig Super Classic kit Blue Oyster Pearl
22, 13, 16, 14x5
1968 Ludwig Hollywood kit Blue Oyster Pearl
22, 12, 13, 16
A Zildjian cymbals (50's-70's)
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  #4  
Old 03-06-2019, 12:34 AM
Marty Black Marty Black is online now
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Default Re: Question on spring tension - Ludwig 1124 Atlas hi hat

Thanks K.O. and Woody! MB
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  #5  
Old 03-06-2019, 10:30 AM
idrum4fun idrum4fun is offline
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Default Re: Question on spring tension - Ludwig 1124 Atlas hi hat

Hi Marty!

Pictures are worth 1000's of words...so, I just took some good pictures for you to see how this all works. After you click each picture, click each again to see them larger.

My 1124 hi hat is in pristine condition and works great! I completely disassembled the mechanism and thoroughly cleaned off all the old grease from the spring and adjusting wheel parts.

You can see the closeup of the base, showing which way to turn the wheel to "Tighten". Using my two extra wheel adjusters as a visual, you can see that the threaded portion is fully down when you turn the wheel to loosen tension, as seen with the adjuster on the right. When fully tightened, the threaded section moves up a full 1" and compresses the spring by 1". That's quite a bit of compression!

Some things to consider; look closely at the threaded shaft in the adjusting wheel and you can see a notch at the top. That notch has to ride up/down in a rail that is tack-welded inside the bottom of the tube. You can see this rail from the bottom, after you disassemble the stand. Fairly easy to do if you have just a small amount of mechanical aptitude. Another consideration is that, as you continue to tighten, the threaded shaft will eventually move up and out of the adjuster wheel, providing no more tension. If/when you reach this point, just turn the wheel in the opposite direction and the shaft will thread itself back into the adjuster. I really prefer the metal adjuster, but Ludwig needed to save a few pennies by changing to plastic!

See my next post for more pictures and explanations! What fun!

-Mark
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Old 03-06-2019, 10:42 AM
idrum4fun idrum4fun is offline
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Default Re: Question on spring tension - Ludwig 1124 Atlas hi hat

Part 2!

The first pictures shows that I have 1/2" of spacing between cymbals when I set the adjuster at my preferred tension. I set my tension so the top cymbal doesn't compress the spring. Picture 2 shows that the rubber washer is almost touching the bottom of the adjuster wheel. I installed that rubber washer as a "soft stop".

I then turned the wheel to loosen the tension as far as possible. If the threaded shaft is riding properly in that rail, there will be a point where it won't turn any more. Look at how far down my top cymbal has decreased. What was originally 1/2" of space, is now 3/16" from the bottom cymbal. Also, note how far down the pedal has dropped.

Make sense? Keep in mind that the size and weight of your top hi hat cymbal can make a big difference in how all this works. My hats are 14" New Beats from the early 70's. My top cymbal weighs in at 967 grams, or 2 pounds 2 ounces.

Questions? That's what we're here for!

-Mark
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  #7  
Old 03-06-2019, 03:17 PM
Marty Black Marty Black is online now
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Default Re: Question on spring tension - Ludwig 1124 Atlas hi hat

Wow! Thanks ID4F ! That was far more than I had even hoped for! Thanks for the tutorial! I will take the hi hat apart this afternoon, and follow your "prescription!" Thanks again, I appreciate the time and effort you put into taking the photos and writing up your response!

Regards, Marty B
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  #8  
Old 03-06-2019, 03:42 PM
idrum4fun idrum4fun is offline
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Default Re: Question on spring tension - Ludwig 1124 Atlas hi hat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Black View Post
Wow! Thanks ID4F ! That was far more than I had even hoped for! Thanks for the tutorial! I will take the hi hat apart this afternoon, and follow your "prescription!" Thanks again, I appreciate the time and effort you put into taking the photos and writing up your response!

Regards, Marty B
You're welcome, Marty! It's raining here in "sunny" southern California, so it was a great time to just wear sweats and set up my 1124 in the patio for pictures. I haven't used the 1124 in some time now, so it was very gratifying to remember how great the action is.

I have 4 vintage hi hat stands; Ludwig 1123-1 and 1124, Rogers Swivomatic hi hat and a Slingerland 804 flush-base hi hat. All are in excellent condition. The Ludwig 1124, aka Atlas, has the best action of them all. The Swivo is a very close 2nd!

-Mark
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Old 03-06-2019, 06:15 PM
Marty Black Marty Black is online now
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Default Re: Question on spring tension - Ludwig 1124 Atlas hi hat

Thanks again, Mark! I'm up the 101 in Pismo Beach CA, central coast. Not a native, but retired here. After spending 30 winters in Chicago, 4 in Nebraska and 16 in Buffalo, I'm REALLY appreciating a California winter! Even if it has been wet and cool for about a month.

Anyhow, I opened up that 1124 hi hat, cleaned the dried grease off the metal shaft, sprayed oil onto the threads of the shaft, as well as the spring...and set the tension adjustment as you recommended! It's fixed! "Brand new" action! (I bought that thing new in 1976.)

I really appreciate your sharing your expertise; I've learned a lot from you, including using a C1114 snare head on a Super-Sensitive. I had never heard of that snare head before your post on this forum.

Thanks again! Marty Black
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  #10  
Old 03-06-2019, 06:44 PM
idrum4fun idrum4fun is offline
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Default Re: Question on spring tension - Ludwig 1124 Atlas hi hat

Hey Marty! Pismo Beach! You're close! Yeah, we've had way too much rain! I'm retired, too.

Glad you repaired your 1124 and that it's working well. It's a great hi hat stand!

I remember about that C1114 snare-side head. Lots of drummers are glad to know that Ludwig is still making these heads!

-Mark
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