Vintage Drum Forum the best vintage drum forum on the Internet - Vintage Drum History - Vintage Drum Questions

Go Back   Vintage Drum Forum > Vintage Drums

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-03-2022, 08:33 PM
jaghog jaghog is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: chitown
Posts: 5,500
Default Downbeat vs clubdate

I noticed a more boxier choked kinda sound out of club dates, and there seems to be a big difference in the two styles of lugs plus the splaying difference..
What is the consensus? I’m wanting a smaller kit than my Hollywood I’m debating the down my favorite or club for
price ..
__________________
April 2nd 1969 scarfed pink champagne holly wood and 65/66 downbeat snare, and , supra same year very minty kit old pies
66/67 downbeat with canister
Super 400 small round knob





once the brass ceases to glitter, and the drum looses its luster, and the stage remains dark, all you have left is the timbre of family.

Last edited by jaghog; 01-03-2022 at 08:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-04-2022, 12:27 AM
mlayton mlayton is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,164
Default Re: Downbeat vs clubdate

I actually find the opposite in sounds. I much prefer the resonance in my Club Date kits vs. my Down Beat kits. Especially in the 14" floor toms as the CDs have 6 lug and the DBs have eight. Lets them open up more. Just a personal preference though. Great drums...same shells.

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-04-2022, 01:24 AM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,977
Default Re: Downbeat vs clubdate

I've never played a Clubdate kit but I would think that they SHOULD be a bit more open and resonant due to the fact that there is less metal attached to the shell. However...having said that, it might be a matter of WHERE the lugs are attached to the shell that makes a difference...middle of the shell vs. the ends.
I know that I prefer my '64 Pioneer snare drum and I figure it has something to do with it having less metal attached to the shell.
Could be a tuning/drumhead combination issue, too. Some drums seem to open up only within a limited tuning range. For example, I like using Remo Diplomat heads on most of my vintage drums because I think they seal over the bearing edges better than a heavier weight head. I obviously don't play hard with such lightweight heads, but most of my gigs were in dinner clubs and "background" music, so I needed stuff to be responsive at very low-volume playing.
Lastly, some kits just "sing" more than others -regardless of lug configuration. Go figure.
__________________
"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-04-2022, 09:22 PM
K.O. K.O. is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Northwestern Illinois
Posts: 1,989
Default Re: Downbeat vs clubdate

I tend to agree with Mike. I think Club Dates are a bit more open sounding. The only difference is in the lugs, The shells were the same and a shell could be pulled off a stack and become either a CD or a classic depending on what the worker needed to make and how he drilled it. I've never noticed any serious splay issues either.

Of course with vintage Ludwig there are some questionable builds sprinkled in amongst all the production....maybe you heard a couple of the lesser examples. And, of course, we all hear differently.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-05-2022, 11:47 AM
larryz larryz is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Western PA
Posts: 2,233
Default Re: Downbeat vs clubdate

Never played a downbeat but I do love my club dates. The coveted 14" floor tom especially. If I was smart I would have bought them all up back in the 1960s. I could retire now...
__________________
The greatest gift you can give your family and the world is a healthy you. - Joyce Meyer
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-05-2022, 06:10 PM
schmegeggie schmegeggie is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Denton, Maryland
Posts: 727
Default Re: Downbeat vs clubdate

I did a side by side comparison a few years ago. Same heads and tuning, both Tomís on the rail mount. Clubdates are much more open sounding.
Not sure how you came to that conclusion??? Less hardware on the shell.
🤷*♂️
__________________
Drum Kits
1965 Ludwig Clubdate Oyster Blue
1966 Ludwig Clubdate Oyster Black
1969 Ludwig BB Blue Oyster Keystone Clubdate
1971 Ludwig BB Black Oyster
Early 60's Camco Oaklawns Champagne Sparkle
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-06-2022, 08:22 AM
jaghog jaghog is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: chitown
Posts: 5,500
Default Re: Downbeat vs clubdate

Maybe it was the kit
I had only one and it was Obp could of been bearing edges and heads and if I remember I put hang in a basket
it was better
but quite choked on bd mount
I always like 14 in ft ‘s
They do sound sweet
but the db I had sang
maybe it was a lot of things that were not right about my old clubdate
__________________
April 2nd 1969 scarfed pink champagne holly wood and 65/66 downbeat snare, and , supra same year very minty kit old pies
66/67 downbeat with canister
Super 400 small round knob





once the brass ceases to glitter, and the drum looses its luster, and the stage remains dark, all you have left is the timbre of family.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-06-2022, 02:04 PM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,977
Default Re: Downbeat vs clubdate

I'm almost certain that, in a dark room, with all other things being equal (heads, sticks, player, etc.), I wouldn't be able to tell a Clubdate from a Downbeat...and certainly, in the context of playing either kit, in a band, I wouldn't be able to differentiate one from the other.
To Ludwig, it was just a matter of economics. There was no sonic research going on that drove them to make one model with more lugs and another with fewer lugs. It was just that the model with more lugs, cost them more to build. The consumer's perception was that, if one model cost more than the other, then the more expensive model was the premium. In retrospect, the Clubdates were likely the better sonic design.
__________________
"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-06-2022, 06:19 PM
jaghog jaghog is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: chitown
Posts: 5,500
Default Re: Downbeat vs clubdate

So all thoughts , if I was to buy a nice players kit, at a good price , it would sing with all the right protocols in place , heads etc if I remember I might if had a bd of one long ago it was nice.
__________________
April 2nd 1969 scarfed pink champagne holly wood and 65/66 downbeat snare, and , supra same year very minty kit old pies
66/67 downbeat with canister
Super 400 small round knob





once the brass ceases to glitter, and the drum looses its luster, and the stage remains dark, all you have left is the timbre of family.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-06-2022, 09:51 PM
K.O. K.O. is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Northwestern Illinois
Posts: 1,989
Default Re: Downbeat vs clubdate

Also, just to be persnickety, there were no Downbeat drums. There was a 12/14/20 outfit called the Downbeat but the drums in it were the same as any other drums those sizes in any other outfits, or any individual drums ordered out of the catalog.

A Club Date and a Downbeat (and a Standard S-300 outfit) used the same shells but different hardware.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2022 VSDwebdesign