Old 11-25-2021, 09:14 AM
#1
Rotarded Rotarded is offline
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Default Transition badged Super Ludwig imposter?
The authenticity of this snare offered up on Facebook is being fervently debated. I have my opinion, what do you see?

https://m.facebook.com/groups/139663...omment_mention
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1964 Ludwig Downbeat Black Diamond Pearl (12,13,14,16,20)
1976 Ludwig Stainless Steel "Bop" (12,14,18)
1998 Ayotte "Ray Era" Wood Hoop Copper Sparkle (10,12,14,16,20)

Last edited by Rotarded; 11-25-2021 at 04:22 PM.
Old 11-25-2021, 10:48 AM
#2
Marty Black Marty Black is online now
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Default Re: Transition badged Super Ludwig imposter?
I'm one of the few members of the Facebook Resistance - I refuse to join....so I cannot see the photos or text. However, I'd refer to Rob Cook's book. A transition badge Super Ludwig should have the earlier heavier lugs (the external contours are slightly different from the common lugs), brass shell with seam visible, crimped snare beds, 3/4" round muffler, and I'd expect that the screws (bolts) that hold the lugs have a single-slot screwdriver head, not the hex-head. COB hoops of course. Though possibly not a "requirement," I'd also expect to see the early P-83 strainer with the slotted "dogleg" protrusion on the left side. Of course, the badge and grommet should be a good "factory fit," inside and out.

Good luck, MB
Old 11-25-2021, 12:11 PM
#3
O-Lugs O-Lugs is offline
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Default Re: Transition badged Super Ludwig imposter?
I'm not a Facebook member.....Can't see it.
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Old 11-25-2021, 01:03 PM
#4
slingerfan slingerfan is offline
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Default Re: Transition badged Super Ludwig imposter?
Hers a link to the discussion on another forum:
https://www.drumforum.org/threads/lu...-badge.191461/
The hardware layout, strainer one panel right of badge and tone control one panel left of butt, may be the key to explaining this drum.
Old 11-25-2021, 01:25 PM
#5
BEC BEC is offline
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Default Re: Transition badged Super Ludwig imposter?
I read the thread on DFO. Drum looks good to me. Everything's in the correct place for late 50's brass isn't it?
Old 11-25-2021, 07:46 PM
#6
mlayton mlayton is offline
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Default Re: Transition badged Super Ludwig imposter?
I've had a few of these snare drums. At least a couple that I recall had the strainer in different positions.

Mike
Old 11-26-2021, 11:28 AM
#7
thin shell thin shell is offline
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Default Re: Transition badged Super Ludwig imposter?
In my opinion, that grommet is not original and the crimping is incorrect so I'd say it is definitely very suspect. I don't want to give too many details, because I don't want it easier for someone to do it correctly.

It also looks like the hole in the shell is too large and you can see part of it exposed on one side of the spacer.

Look at it this way, if something is valuable, or even not that valuable but sells in great numbers someone will try to make a fake to make a quick buck.

Brass shelled Supers fit that bill. They sell for thousands. So do BOP Jazz Fests, especially "Ringo Spec '63 Jazz Fests" which sell for tens of thousands. On the other end of the spectrum you have counterfeit Sure SM57s flooding the market and the real thing is just around $100.

There is currently a Ringo Spec '63 Jazz Fest, or at least there was not too long ago, for sale with a highly respected dealer that appears to be as fake as a three dollar bill, but he claims he can spot a fake. It's listed for big bucks.



Edit: I'm not saying this drum is a necessarily a fake, but the badge has been off so that raises a lot of questions about this particular drum as to it's originality and origin.



My point is that you need to be suspicious of anything you buy, but especially things that are valuable and collectible.

Last edited by thin shell; 11-26-2021 at 08:15 PM.
Old 11-26-2021, 01:07 PM
#8
BEC BEC is offline
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Default Re: Transition badged Super Ludwig imposter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by thin shell View Post
That grommet is not original and the crimping is incorrect so I'd say it is definitely very suspect. I don't want to give too many details, because I don't want it easier for someone to do it correctly.

It also looks like the hole in the shell is too large and you can see part of it exposed on one side of the spacer.

Look at it this way, if something is valuable, or even not that valuable but sells in great numbers someone will try to make a fake to make a quick buck.

Brass shelled Supers fit that bill. They sell for thousands. So do BOP Jazz Fests, especially "Ringo Spec '63 Jazz Fests" which sell for tens of thousands. On the other end of the spectrum you have counterfeit Sure SM57s flooding the market and the real thing is just around $100.

There is currently a Ringo Spec '63 Jazz Fest, or at least there was not too long ago, for sale with a highly respected dealer that appears to be as fake as a three dollar bill, but he claims he can spot a fake. It's listed for big bucks.


My point is that you need to be suspicious of anything you buy, but especially things that are valuable and collectible.

Lots of experts out there I see?
One thing I don't think I've ever seen, but I'm only 70, is a faked COB Super Ludwig.
Old 11-26-2021, 02:17 PM
#9
thin shell thin shell is offline
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Default Re: Transition badged Super Ludwig imposter?
Well, one way or another, that is not the original grommet in my opinion. Once you pull the grommet, you open yourself up for an uphill battle proving it is "all original".

The drum may be the real deal, and at some point some genius decided to remove the badge so they could do a thorough polishing of the shell or as some on the other site have suggested, it might have been replated at some point.

Based on what was posted at the other site, I would lean toward it having been replated. The chrome is just a little too perfect and the chrome on the inside is a bit too shiny compared to the other examples posted.

If it is real, it's still a Super that has had the badge off and has possibly been replated, making it similar to a rewrapped drum. It looks great, but once you tamper with it, it's no longer original and loses some value.

Last edited by thin shell; 11-26-2021 at 08:16 PM.
Old 11-26-2021, 04:02 PM
#10
slingerfan slingerfan is offline
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Default Re: Transition badged Super Ludwig imposter?
Thanks for the clarification thin shell. I was also confused by your previous comments since 'fake' is completely different than 'not all original'. Does anyone feel this was not originally a "transition badge" shell?
 

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