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  #11  
Old 07-27-2022, 04:29 PM
MarkD MarkD is offline
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Default Re: Drum Brand Preferences

Oddly, and when I was in and out of Frank's Drum Shop every weekend in the 60's, I never much took to Slingerland Drums.

Seemed like they were the Red Headed Step Sister of the lot. Maybe Maurie Lishon didn't properly showcase and display the Brand much.

As a businessman at that point in time, perhaps his foremost desire, and like many other dealers in business, was to sell what sells. ($$$$)

Maybe when rock and roll really took off, Slingerland's advertising was aimed at the "old jazz geezers", and a lot of drummers took alternate paths and unwittingly actually bought some inferior Drums in the process. I know I did as well back then.

Even Rogers seemed a bit out of touch.

I'd garner a guess, there weren't too many who had their hearts set on a brand such as Sonor. But Sonor has made some really great drums.
  #12  
Old 07-27-2022, 10:36 PM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is offline
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Default Re: Drum Brand Preferences

I remember seeing a picture of Jack Dejohnette playing a Sonor kit on the back of one of his album covers. I think it was rosewood or possibly ebony. I knew from looking at them, a kit like that was way out of my grasp at that time. Plus, there were no dealers of Sonor drums in my area. They were kinda like a Rolls Royce whereas all the American drum brands were like American car brands -Chevy, Ford, Dodge...
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  #13  
Old 07-28-2022, 03:55 PM
DrumBob DrumBob is offline
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Default Re: Drum Brand Preferences

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkD View Post
Oddly, and when I was in and out of Frank's Drum Shop every weekend in the 60's, I never much took to Slingerland Drums.

Seemed like they were the Red Headed Step Sister of the lot. Maybe Maurie Lishon didn't properly showcase and display the Brand much.

As a businessman at that point in time, perhaps his foremost desire, and like many other dealers in business, was to sell what sells. ($$$$)

Maybe when rock and roll really took off, Slingerland's advertising was aimed at the "old jazz geezers", and a lot of drummers took alternate paths and unwittingly actually bought some inferior Drums in the process. I know I did as well back then.

Even Rogers seemed a bit out of touch.

I'd garner a guess, there weren't too many who had their hearts set on a brand such as Sonor. But Sonor has made some really great drums.
Rogers out of touch? Rogers always seemed like the most advanced drum company back then.
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'01 DW Collector's, Oyster White: 8/10/12/14/16/22.
'72 Slingerland Red Tiger Pearl: 12/13/16/16/22.
'64 Slingerland: 13/16/20/22 (to be restored).
'68 Slingerland Green Sparkle: 12/13/16/14 chr./20/20.
'65 Slinger/Leedy, Blue Sparkle: 12/14/20.
'67 Ludwig Burgundy Sparkle: 12/13/16/22.
'69 Ludwig Black Diamond Pearl: 12/13/16/22.
'70-ish Ludwig Std, Burgundy Oyster: 13/16/22.
'69-ish MIJ Drum Mate, Peacock Pearl: 13/16/22.
  #14  
Old 07-28-2022, 11:31 PM
Marty Black Marty Black is offline
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Default Re: Drum Brand Preferences

I agree with what Mark D said...Rob Cook's "The Rogers Book" explains the enigma that Roger was. They had a small core group of dedicated expert drum makers in Ohio, but then came management and ownership changes, and factory location changes, and despite their high-grade drums and innovative hardware, they "lost touch" with drummers.

Rogers' various managements and owners just didn't seem interested in expanding their customer base nor making Rogers a world-class drum company. Ludwig, meanwhile, while not as good as Rogers, marketed their drums like crazy, and became what many of us believed, to be the #1 best drum company in the world. Most of the drummers on TV played Ludwig, as well as the best local bands, so that became the "holy grail" for those of us who were teenagers in the 1960s.

I'd recommend "The Rogers Book" to all vintage drum collectors. I've never owned nor played a Rogers kit, but I was curious as to why such a good drum company never "made it big" like Ludwig. You can only credit Ringo with so much - there were other factors in play that put Ludwig on top (until the less-expensive Japanese imports came along and fundamentally changed the market for Ludwig).

Rob Cook's "The Ludwig book" and "The Making of a Drum Company" (about Ludwig) are also very good books for drum historians.

Regards, mb
  #15  
Old 07-29-2022, 10:58 AM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is offline
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Default Re: Drum Brand Preferences

It wasn't just about the quality of the drums, themselves. If that was the case, then I believe Rogers would have been at the top of the heap. But....quality was only one facet of the game.

Ludwig found ways to make drums that satisfied the drummers, and that were good enough. No one was putting drum sets under the microscope and dissecting every screw and washer. Well....almost no one. Rogers spent money on innovation and Ludwig put selling aa the top priority. And, at the end of the day, Rogers just couldn't compete with the Ludwig business model. Slingerland tried. They were Ludwig's main competitor and I don't think there was any love lost between Bill and Bud. But, when the rubber met the road, Ludwig had the best tread and that's why they are still around,

And I don'y mean to suggest that Ludwig was some sloppy budget junk. Not at all! Their Classic lugs and baseball bat mufflers were gorgeous. The keystone badge was classy, and recognizable at a distance....And, of course, it didn't hurt to have endorsers like Buddy Rich, Roy Haynes, Joe Morello, Ringo, Bonham and just about every other superstar drummer of the day. The perception was that IF all those great drummers played Ludwigs, then that spoke to the quality of the instrument.
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  #16  
Old 07-29-2022, 12:44 PM
kdg kdg is offline
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Default Re: Drum Brand Preferences

This is just some of my personal observations and opinions:

Bill II covered more sales bases than any of his competetors. He was heavily invested in the school band market (get 'em when they're young), always promoting the longevity of his brand, splashy colorful catalogs, big name endorsers, and clinic out-reach.

I feel that sometimes when a business expands to a certain level, it becomes difficult to recognize emerging trends or to be able to pivot your business model to avoid losing customers. If I'm not mistaken, W.F was president from 1909 to about 1969 and Bill II was certainly influencing his father from the 1950's, but by 1981 (12 years?) the company was under Selmers banner. The influx of higher quality Japanese companies gaining a foothold in the 70's was the most probable reason for this.
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1964-67 Rogers Blue Glass Glitter 12/14/16/20
early Oaklawn Camco Blue Moire 12/14/20
1926 Super Ludwig 5x14
1960-ish Ludwig COB 5x14 Super Sensitive
1960-ish Ludwig COB 6.5x14 Super Sensitive
1970 Ludwig COB Cut-Badge 5x14 Supra Phonic

Looking for a Camco Aristocrat SD in Blue Moire!!

Last edited by kdg; 07-29-2022 at 03:24 PM.
  #17  
Old 07-29-2022, 02:41 PM
Romulus Romulus is offline
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Default Re: Drum Brand Preferences

Though Pearl was making stencil outfits, orchestral and field marching percussion it wasn’t until the early mid 70s when they finally arrived.
Even then they were among the MIJ Titans with Yamaha, and Star.

This is, at least where my lifelong loyalty comes in, was when Peter Criss signed with them.
Earlier in their shows he was spotted with his Ludwig Classic in silver sparkle, and when he reached out to Bill Ludwig to request endorsement, he was denied.

Little did anyone know how much he’d go on to influence a multitude.

Now here’s my speculation, when they did their Midnight Special show in ‘75, that was the feature of The Catman behind a set of Pearl’s - and what a show they put on finishing with Black Diamond.
That Pearl kit looked eerily similar of Luddies Black Panther finish but with concert toms, (even had the 6 and 8” bongo
toms far right over the floors) to which he destroyed entirely after the show. Never did we again see that finish.

I could definitely see the marketability of The Catman playing a Black Panther outfit.

Further, imagine if Ludwig endorsed him in the 70’s it would have been Brewer, Criss, Bonham, etc.. and Pearl would not have the cult following it needed to boost up their presence, and ultimately where they’d wind up.

Nowadays Pearl continues doing great things and have been leading edge when it comes to just about anything from their line of kits, hardware, concert, and marching percussion ideals.
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Last edited by Romulus; 07-29-2022 at 03:13 PM.
  #18  
Old 07-29-2022, 07:25 PM
leedybdp leedybdp is offline
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Default Re: Drum Brand Preferences

I suppose that we can have completely opposite opinions about Pearl drums and still remain friendly.
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  #19  
Old 07-29-2022, 08:30 PM
Romulus Romulus is offline
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Default Re: Drum Brand Preferences

Quote:
Originally Posted by leedybdp View Post
I suppose that we can have completely opposite opinions about Pearl drums and still remain friendly.
Elaborating would help.

If your aim or aversion is where they’re manufactured I could care less about that - Pearl has HQ base for national support in The States unlike Yammie or Tama…

Last edited by Romulus; 07-29-2022 at 08:34 PM.
  #20  
Old 08-02-2022, 09:31 AM
leedybdp leedybdp is offline
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Default Re: Drum Brand Preferences

I think the thought you're trying to convey is that you could NOT care less about where Pearl is manufactured. I have several turn-offs for that brand. At the top of the list is that manufacturer's hijacking of the term used for many decades to describe the material (plastics of various types) used to wrap the drum shells. If a younger drummer asks me about my favorite color for a drum set, I might answer: "My favorite drum set is Black Diamond Pearl". It really annoys me that so many of those younger drummers might say: "I didn't know that Pearl has a Black Diamond wrap".
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