Ya I would stay away from the ZBT's. I will say I once had a ZBT Ride I tought sounded great.
I used to use a set of Paiste pst3's for double bass because they were cheap but I didn't like the sound so most of the time I didn't actual play them. You might as well try to get something that sound decent just wait till a deal comes up.
Its use in good cymals is very limited, and it seems that some of the well made B8 lines have been discontinued. As a result I think out of prudence it makes sense not to recommend B8 cymbals to anyone...
[COLOR="DarkRed"]This is where your logic fails you.
It is basically saying "because most cheapo cymbals are made of B8, it is wise to suggest never buying a B8 alloy cymbal".
...that's just plain silly....
Suggesting something such as a Wuhan-made B20 (horribly impure alloys, BTW, and incredibly out-of control overtones, too) over a better-designed, well-made pair of B8's (2002's, Alphas, Dimensions, Meinl Customs, Mienl Amuns, old Zildjian Amirs, Paiste 404's, 505's, 802's or even PST5's) is really very, very poor advice.
For brand-new cymbals....PST5's aren't bad at all; nor are the Zildjian ZHT's (technically B12's). Meinl Classics can be quite decent as well. Also Istanbul Alchemy/ART.....
...then a plethora of GOOD, used B8's noted throughout this thread which can easily be had for the price of a brand-new ZBT.....
Paiste, particularly, taught folks that the B8 alloy isn't just for cheapo cymbals.....if you missed that lesson...it's still out there. And finding good, used Paiste B8's isn't very difficult at all.
It isn't really very difficult to avoid bad B8's...you just gotta research a bit and use your own ears.
[/COLOR]
Moist of Paistes are made of B8, and I will run into the ground how much I LOOOOOOOVE Paistes. Paiste is one of the very few to master this alloy. Zildjian and Sabian need to stick to what they know- cast B20 cymbals.
Don't be dissin' my B8's. I will bang my B8's 'til they pry them from my cold, dead hands. I will defend the honour of B8 alloy PROPERLY treated by a REAL cymbal company.
[COLOR="DarkRed"]This is where your logic fails you.It is basically saying "because most cheapo cymbals are made of B8, it is wise to suggest never buying a B8 alloy cymbal"....that's just plain silly....Suggesting something such as a Wuhan-made B20 (horribly impure alloys, BTW, and incredibly out-of control overtones, too) over a better-designed, well-made pair of B8's (2002's, Alphas, Dimensions, Meinl Customs, Mienl Amuns, old Zildjian Amirs, Paiste 404's, 505's, 802's or even PST5's) is really very, very poor advice. For brand-new cymbals....PST5's aren't bad at all; nor are the Zildjian ZHT's (technically B12's). Meinl Classics can be quite decent as well. Also Istanbul Alchemy/ART........then a plethora of GOOD, used B8's noted throughout this thread which can easily be had for the price of a brand-new ZBT.....Paiste, particularly, taught folks that the B8 alloy isn't just for cheapo cymbals.....if you missed that lesson...it's still out there. And finding good, used Paiste B8's isn't very difficult at all.It isn't really very difficult to avoid bad B8's...you just gotta research a bit and use your own ears.[/COLOR]
I believe some of the better B8 lines are no longer being made. Certainly anything currently in the Zildjian or Sabian lines should probably be avoided by serious musicians. I was not attempting to denegrate all B8 cymbals out there. What I was trying to express was that without being able to hear a specific B8 cymbal myself, I would, as a general rule, not recommend one over a cast cymbal. I've heard more than my share of crappy cast cymbals too. Paiste was not in my equation so I apologize for perhaps wrongfully including them with the Zs and Sabians. I heard a couple of Meinls I believe were B8's and they left me cold. With regard to Wuhans, I think I indicated that some sounded Ok, and I stick to that. At their price point they are ( or at least used to be) competitive with the Zildjian and Sabian B8s and several of the ones I have heard were significantly more musical then the B8's from those firms.
It still comes down to taste and I stand by my opinion that good B20 cast cymbals are generally superior to B8 sheet metal. While I will accept that exceptions exist, I was speaking in generalities.
What about these 14" Light Zildjains?
Any good?
Not very vintage...
That's what I wanted to know. How can I tell what is vintage and what weight they should be?
Allen,
Take a picture of the stamped logo. The ones you pictured could go back to early 1980s if they don't have a serial number.
Scott
No I have not heard them. They are on e-bay.
