[COLOR="DarkRed"]Good call.

Not quite worth $900 those, because new cymbals are way, way, way overpriced and vintage cymbals are better and cheaper than new.

That is why I almost NEVER suggest folks buy new cymbals. With the exception of some Turkish handmades, a new cymbal is never worth it's pricetag...you can usually get 2 sweet vintage cymbals for the price of one mediocre new one.

So, those good A's were probably worth about $400 market value, then add another $100 for the beginner ones...so, the cost of the kit, you got some great cymbals. Like getting the kit for free.

And now you have some quality cymbals to add to your kit and can sell your low-end ones.

So, you can keep the kit, or post it for quick sale on C'list for, like, $375.....

So you would have layed out $125 for $400 worth of vintage Zildjians. Not a bad score.[/COLOR]

I went back to the pawn shop and the price was 599. I didnt buy it. I know what you mean about new cymbals. i bought some sabian HHX, there supposed top of the line. Well they are all cracked and not wworth diddly now. The looked sweet but were way to thin i guess. But, I did buy them at a pawn shop at 1/3 of musicians friend price. The sabian ride I got was infact a very sweet ride . We are still playing it. I have a old zildjain 22" ride and some old hi hats that sound fabulous. I love them ole z cymbals

Have to jump in here, sorry. I agree that *most* new cymbals are overpriced and not the same quality as some of the old ones, but not all. The Dream cymbal company, a relative newcomer to the cymbal scene, are making some incredible cymbals for very reasonable prices. These are hand hammered/hand crafted cymbals from Wuhan China and much like the cymbals of yore, each and every one is different.

These are NOT the Wuhan cymbals which you can buy at GC for a buck an inch. These are much better quality and don't sound as "Chinese" as the Wuhan brand cymbals.

I purchased a 22" ride/crash cymbal for $165.00 - Every musician who has played or heard this cymbal loves it. Many folks liken the sound to the highly sought after vintage K cymbals which the Dream Bliss line are patented after.

I'm a big fan of used cymbals myself - In fact I rarely buy new these days. As for the Sabian HHX line, I've heard a bunch of those in various stores and I really like the sound of them. That said, they are delicate pies, much like Zildjian A Customs. Thin cymbals don't last long if you (A) Pound on them or (B) Hit them the wrong way. I have a 16" Sabian AAX which is pretty thin (like an A Custom) and I've been banging on it for around 15 years without a problem.

If you're a heavy hitter, you need tougher/thicker cymbals. If you really like the sound of the thinner cymbals (which I do) then you need to adjust your playing style so you don't crack them.

When I was younger, I regularly cracked A Zildjian cymbals, but I got tired of replacing them, so I changed my playing style. No problems since!

Yeah, I'm pretty sure for the most part a cymbal's durability comes down to how you are playing on it, I hear from a lot of people that if you play properly you hardly ever break them (hit at a good angle like about 35-45 degrees or so, bounce back with sort of reverse follow through). Of course, if you do hit sickeningly hard or whatever then I suppose a thicker/bigger cymbal wouldn't hurt, especially since that probably means you want more projection and volume and a large cymbal will help with that xP.

Buying used is really nice though, as aside from perhaps cosmetic issues I really don't see much of a huge reason to buy new. Pedals and drums might have different options or have actual performance-affecting wear used, or be missing extra parts and manuals, but a cymbal is generally pretty straightfoward. I grabbed a 17" A Custom that was pretty dirty and has some probably unremovable marks, but it was only $50 and I love it! Zildjian A Customs are I believe what sort of equates to top of the line in some ways since they cost the most (there with the current high end lines sound-wise I guess), but they are probably the thinnest out of the main lines... so I don't think high-end necessarily equals highest crack resistance.

Also, I've heard good things about Dream cymbals but I've never really seen them around or heard them. The only HHX's I've tried were a pair of 18" Synergy concert crashes I used at a community college for honor band. Those were some nice crashes, though. :D Cost nearly 600 dollars new!!!

We have a jam room we play in 2 times a week. I have a tama rockstar kit with a pearl rack set up in there. 2 crashes, a sabian ride and zildjian hi hats. 4 tom tom and a floor tom. its a lot of fun to play with all the toms. but,

a jam is a jam. all these guest drummers dont seam to give a **** about my cymbals. One of the regulars brought his zildjain crash so we use it now. They have broke 3 sabian HHX and another sabian crash i had. I bought all the sabians at a pawn shop some yrs agao right after christmas for cheap, but never the less, it sorta ****ed me off that they are all trash now. I should put some zbt's or b 8's. see if they can destroy them. I should explain to the guest drummers about the cymbals. We have a blast in there though.

Me in the pic

By the way, If i do aquire some more good crash cymbals, they will stay at the house. As soon as I get my 60's ludwigs finished they will be set up in my living room.

My cymbal buying over the last 5 or so years has been very specifically targeted to build 3 distinct sets.

Vintage/Jazz....Paiste Formula 602's

Rock/Amplified....Paiste 2oo2's and Dimensions

Beaters....Paiste 5o5's (which sound pretty dang good by the way)

And then along the way I've picked up a bunch of different rides....which seems to be the usual sickness. Love ride cymbals.

Ive never had a paiste cymbol. I have always been a zildjian fan. When I was growing up mmy brother played in numerous bands and they all played zildjian. they used to give me free drum lessons. Way way way back when lol.

I went pawn shoping today and the only cymbals I found the same zildjians i saw yesterday. the zildjian a. I went to guitar center and hit a few like the ones I found. They sounded fabulous to me! The only problem is they came with a pearl export kit. I really dont need another set of drums in my house right now. I restoring a 68 ludwig kit and a 60's sonor teardrop kit. They wanted 500 for the pearls with the cymbols. There were also some cheap cymbols in that kit too. I could buy kelly's jazzfest snare for less than that. What a predicament! I ended up buying 4 metal snares any way. I got a old premier, a 70's luddy acrolite and a pacific piccalo for $100. I found a 70's slingy with a ludwig case, that matched my new acrolite for $75. but i was looking for a wood snare for my 68 luddys. I plan to rewrap to mach my vintage sky blue pearl drums. I still didnt get any new cymbals! Go Figure!

It's nice to see a cymbal topic thread garner more than two or three responses, so I'll pipe in, too...

I do agree that today's cymbal prices are over the top. And I also believe most of today's commercially manufactured pies are not as good as those from fifteen or twenty years ago.

The costs of metals, power for the factories, factory maintenance, employees payrolls, insurance and benefits, shipping, promotions and advertising - that and more all figures into a new cymbal's pricetag. Just like it does with new cars.

Used cymbals don't have all that baggage attached. But they are becoming "recognized as vintage,' which, by many scalpers' greed, equates to higher prices for nistalgic and sentimental value. Phooey !

But it's true that you can buy better old cymbals for less - usually at music stores and pawn shops, though, not on feeBay.

The trouble with feeBay is that, for one thing, by the time it comes to the closing moments of any bid that seemed like a good deal, the price has been driven up way too high. Second, there are a few greedy sharks out there whose practices have driven the prices for most all vintage gear higher than it ought to be. But, as long as there are people willing to pay, the prices will keep going up.

Supply and demand is the usual generator of market prices. There are only so many decent used cymbals, and everybody wants them. So the prices will go up.

Still, a pair of 1970s Avedis Zildjian New Beat hi-hats can often be had off feeBay for under one hundred dollars. Definitely a deal. They're far better cymbals than any ZBTs or AAXs, they're seasoned and the metal is settled, they have some built-in mojo, and they're an all-around workhorse hi-hat.

Even better if you can find 'em at music stores or pawn shops. The sales tax is usually much less than the cost of shipping through some feeBay sellers.

Older (1960s-1980s) Avedis Zildjians are decent cymbals, and they'll fit most all styles of music. They were the standard of the industry for many decades.

All cymbals (save for cheapie brass ones) can crack and break. Just like science has said how a bumble bee's wings should not even allow it flight, and yet it flies superbly - well, cymbals, made of cast bronze and tin, ought to crack like glass on the first strike of a stick, but they don't.

Tightening the felts too tight is an immediate step toward edge and cup cracks. Hitting them with hammering blows in overly-loud amplified stage volumes is another promise of a short life.

There are (and always have been) the right cymbals for the right applications. If you're a rocker using thin hand-hammered cymbals, well, then you should expect them to crack and break. If you're a jazzer using heavy rock cymbals, then you should expect to not get called back to many gigs.

But good old used A Zildjians are plentiful right now, and well worth their prices, as opposed to overly-high-priced new artsy-****sy models that will crack and break just as easily as old cymbals will.

That's all.