You've missed a disturbingly vital aspect out of the equation: it has to be entertaining. I've sat and listened to really fine players with a great sound and a wonderful feel, yet it's been like watching paint dry. Ultimately, we have to be entertainers. We recently had a viewer's poll TV program that had Keith Moon pitted against John Bonham as the world's greatest rock drummer; hard call, I thought. I knew them both personally, and had been watching and listening to them play from the start, but this was an audience choice. I felt sure they would go for Mooney because of his showmanship, but Bonzo got the vote! I felt absolutely elated, because feel and finesse had triumphed. Not that I didn't respect Keith's abilities - he was a wizard; and not that I felt John wasn't a showman, because he certainly was. And, in fact, many of the viewer's comments were that he was equally as attractive a performer as Planty and far more so than Page. Point is, no-one ever told me that I sounded crap, cos I didn't; but if I had, they sure as hell would have let me know. You need to be good looking too.

Non- musicians generally hear with their eyes.

If a player comes in with a CB 700 with dust on them and heads from 20 years ago...I feel pretty confident to say....the player and the drums will sound bad.

I should also mention the player who plays a club gig with a 9 piece monstor with 3 chinas....people hear with their eyes.

Very similar to a bass player (no matter how pro and tasteful) who loads in a huge 8x10 bass cabinet to a pizzeria gig! People generally assume bad things and "hear" worse.

On the contrary, if a player brings in a sweet downbeat, or clubdate, or whatever 4-5 piece kit....people usually are a little more receptive and complimentary of "the sound".

Again, I'm speaking of non-musicians.

We all know that "real" musicians can't even hear!!! LoLoLoLo

I think entertainment value is important. I've seen entirely entertaining bands with average sound, and average ability, get rave reviews, and I've found that I actually enjoyed the band as well.

Of course I'd like to have it all. Great sounding and looking drums, talented bandmates, great sound guys, and some ability to entertain. And let's not forget the audience, a responsive, listening audience really makes you play better.

Of course you usually can't have it all can you?

I look at it like this: I'd rather be playing in the basement alone than mowing the lawn, rather be playing to tracks than without, jamming with some friends is better than tracks, playing in front of an audience, better than not, and finally getting paid, well that's just the frosting on the cake.

HOLD ON!! People get paid for that? Damn. Please PM me and tell me how!! I only get paid to travel...

Yes, Mr. MC. you've pretty much hit the drum on the head there. All my contemporaries, no matter what they play, tell me the same thing: "All I want is to gig five nights a week with a great band playing great material to an audience who understands and enjoys and applauds"; and given the unremitting and life challenging degree of dedicated effort demanded by the career of virtually every musician I know, I think the least we can hope for is to be allowed to pursue that vocation until we die. So, yes, me too would rather be playing in my practice room rather than mowing the lawn and etc. Well said!

Hey RandyDrummer,What do you call someone who hangs out with musicians? ...........A drummer ka-da-boom!

Actually,just tonite I was at a casino and saw a good wedding type band but was turned off by the (excellent btw) drummers electronic kit! I also have one,great fun to rehearse with etc. but really have no desire to play it live.

Funny thing and as some have alluded to it's more the looks than the sound that appeals to the audience.Case in point. I had played a private VFW type club many times with my old ratty looking set.Bought a new set in a beautiful caramel fade finish and suddenly people who knew me previously came up and complimented my playing. So,I think we do all the restoring etc. for us not the audience.

p.s. I don't use the new fade kit anymore.I PREFER my newly aquired 1971Rogers WMP Londoner with a WMP Radio King snare!

A famous actor (so famous I can't remember who it was) once replied: "Look at me! Look at me! Look at me!" when asked the secret of their exemplary acting success. This is one of the reasons why I thought Keith Moon would win the greatest rock drummer poll, rather than John Bonham. There were obviously a lot of musicians in the polled group. On a technical level, the finest player we have in this area looks like he is asleep at the kit, and enjoys nowhere near the audience acclaim that I get, despite my rather limited (by comparison) technical ability. He also plays a very fine sounding but unprepossessing Yamaha kit, while I play an eye-catching Gretsch Centennial. And while I am quite convinced my Gretsch does sound significantly better than his Yammy, this is an opinion that is also shared by the majority of the punters. SHOWMANSHIP! to a greater, or lesser degree, was a characteristic that was drummed into me at an early age by my thespian family: make sure you are always in the light. While I appreciate that the comparison is a well worn example, I have to re-state the public opinion that Gene Krupa was the better drummer, not Buddy Rich; which, of course, is nonsense! But he was the greater entertainer, and that, as I stated earlier, is our primary raison d’etre, like it or not. As I also said earlier in this thread, when I get up on that Yammy to perform as a guest, people always ask me why his kit sounds so much better when I am playing it. Despite the fact that [for me] performing is a pleasure greater than sex, audience recognition and praise is definitely the money shot.

In the early 90s, my band played a few gigs with 3 other local band, we played five shows in 5 weeks in different cities around New York State. The other bands had sound guys, mic'ed drums, the whole deal. 2 of the places we played had great acoustics, the other 3 not so much.

I was playing a CB kit, good heads, well tuned, nice cymbals...

my drums were never mic'ed, and I got compliments from the other bands, and from the sound guys, who wanted to find out how we mic'ed my drums to get such a warm sound...

LoLoLoLo

While we are on the entertainment value topic, I polled about 8 non musician friends that were at fireworks with me last night. The question I asked was this; "who do you think is a better drummer, Steve Gadd or Neil Peart?"

I know these people very well and they often come to my gigs, they are not really musicians, (one played clarinet in school, one plucks around on guitar) but love listening to music, going to live shows, going to concerts. Three of us drove to NYC in the '70s to see the Stones, slept in my car. Several of us go back every year to see Allmans at the Beacon, except this year.

The answer overwhelmingly was Peart. One person didn't know Gadd, but most knew of 50 ways groove, Late in the evening, Body Guard, etc.

I think this goes to the entertainment value of a big flashy kit, long solo's, and showmanship, rather than groovemanship.

And I'm not denagrating Peart, he's a fine drummer.

Look at me! Look at me! Look at me!