I once had a "Heavy" 2002 black label 20" that sounded almost identical to a friend's red label 2002 "Jazz Rock" 20" ride.

Why buy an old Black Label when you can get a new 2002 20" Med-Heavy Ride that will last twice as long? Yes, they are both the same Alloy and should sound similar but remember, cymbals are like drum heads, they sound great once broken in but they only have so much life in them before they sound like a Garbage Can Lid! If you can get a sound file on it maybe, but I would be extremely cautious buying a used cymbal without test driving it 1st. Just my take on it. Also, "Ride" indicates that it is the Standard weight ride, The Medium-Heavy. and the same with the 2002 "Crash" is a Medium-Thin and the "Medium Crash" is the Heavier, Medium Weight. Although Paiste has them both listed as medium weight, the standard crash is thinner and answers quicker.

Quite a few people would heartily disagree with you on the lifespan. There are people still playing some pretty old pies that were well taken care of and sound pretty good. Some mellow and get even nicer the longer they are played. I do agree with you-look it over well and play it before plunking down the money.

Btw- those old black label 2K2's can be quite expensive!!!

Yes and you are absolutely right! Many would disagree but once again we are back to personal taste or how refined ones sense of hearing is or is not. There are alot of great cymbals out there that like you stated have been well taken care of and still sound fantastic even after 40 or 50 years. On the other hand I've tested old Ks that were priced in the thousands that I personally wouldnt even want for a practice cymbal...That Bad...But one thing is undeniable, Cymbals do have a certain lifespan and eventually sound god awful, and the level of trashy sound that they deteriorate to is all a matter of taste...Its obvious some drummers like a ride that sounds like a cheap china cymbal....

I'm pretty sure the alloy changed in '91 because they closed the mine in Switzerland. Any of the cymbals prior to that had B8 bronze, after that it is a different alloy that they mine from Turkey. I've been playing a 20" Sound Creation bright ride that I've owned since '77 and it is as clean & clear as the day I got it. Apples and oranges?? It's all about personal taste I agree..

2k2's have been and always will be B8. The source of the alloy may have changed, but it is B8. Now, there are B15 (or something like that) and B20 in their range (B15 is in the Signature range).

The weights may have increased over the years for today's louder music, but they are pretty similar to the weights of yesteryear. I would argue to say that it's not worth the extra expense to buy a vintage 2k2 unless you're trying to make a replica kit. The sound isn't that much different.

I don't disagree with your statement.

Some people like that totally dried-out, nearly dead sound of an old, beaten up cymbal. Some alloys age better than others. I will say that the reason why Zilly and Sab's B8 pies aren't as nice as Paiste's offerings is that they don't work their B8 blanks enough. I have seen a lot more old 2k2's that aged better than B20's. Could be a coincidence. Also, a re-hammered Sabian B8 sounds pretty good!!!

In the end, use your ears before you spend.