Here i have some more pics of the stamps. Also the K Zildjian is 400gms. The other Zildjian cymbal weighs in at 600gms. The sizes are K Zildjian 12 3/4"..The size of Zildjian cymbal 13 1/16". They were used as a set of hi hats but obvious slight size difference. They were used like this for a very long time. I suppose both cymbals were splashs crashes etc etc not original hi hats. They do sound good together and project very well. On their own sound very trashy. Im caught up with a problem, as i want to sell them i think it might be better selling seperately. The zildjian distributed to premier great britain ive never seen before. Plus i dont see the made in usa part on the stamp. One last thing the mounting hole is the original small hole not been drilled bigger...Thx...sean

Thanks for the decent photos. I was wrong about the particular version of the Pre Trans Stamp. Now that I can see it properly it is English Bottom 1 (with the S of AVEDIS sticking out past the end of ZILDJAIN) combined with the Chunky Ottoman top. Here's another one from my site:

[img]http://black.net.nz/avedis/images/low-usa.jpg[/img]

ref: http://black.net.nz/avedis/pre-trans.html

as you can see there the MADE IN USA can be a variable distance below the rest of the English portion for these pre Trans Stamps, and in your case it is missing but the Premier stamp is there instead.

Similarly, the K Zildjian & Cie Constantinople stamp on yours is different in subtle ways from the one I posted. The star and moon are different, the size of the MADE IN TURKEY text wrapped around the moon is different (as is the detail of how it is wrapped), and the section in Arabic seems different. All I know about these early ones is that they aren't well documented and I haven't seen proper evidence presented for the years of use. Again, Bill Hartrick (Drumaholic on this forum) probably knows if he feels like contributing. He's the one who has studied these.

I have no relevant price data so I can't say anything evidence based. Others may venture an opinion.

Thanks Zenstat for all your help and advice.....sean

Some more pics of these fab cymbals. Also under the bell of the Pre Trans Stamp there is a signature. Any idea what the signature is all about. Plus the natural patina, i just gave them a light wash to remove dust.

Last two pics...One slight down side. On the K Zildjian it has 4 minute cracks on bell and i mean minute hard to picture. But bearing in mind the age the sound of these as an unmatched pair sound absolutely class.

The cracks will hurt its value, especially on a hi hat because of the pressure at the bell from the hi hat clutch.

The signature on the A is cool. Old K's had the signature of the maker (all the way up to the 1970s), and A's did that for a while but stopped a long time ago. That corroborates that it is a very early A. Missing sig on an old K may mean that it was cleaned off at some point. (another reason not to clean)

These cymbals are that paper thin dont need any pressure on them. As for value you are right it will affect the sale value. To come this far the cymbals have done well. They look great and sound absolutely fab with the odd flaw. I will probably offer them up for sale on VDF as a pair. Could do with a soundfile of these...Thanks.sean