How much did this cymbal cost you? That kind of weld must have affected the sound to some degree. Not knowledgeable about welding myself, but I wonder if it will last. There is an awful lot of intense vibration at cymbal edges.

I Paid 29 bucks for that cymbal, shipped to my door. If that cymbal is played correctly the weld should last atleast a year. That entire area is not weld, some is just where my grinder gets the cymbal, when I'm dressing down the "toe" of the welds. It sounds like a Zildjian avedis 18" crash cymbal lol.

An alternative is to cut a narrow V starting slightly above the start of the crack and just remove the metal around the crack altogether. I would drill a small hole first at the apex of the V just at the top end of the crack so it can't extend upward towards the bell. Even if you continue to tig weld, I would definitely drill that hole first. The hole is critical if you want to contain a crack.

I've tried the drill and cut methods, because they were far more simple, and have found that Tig welding is by far the most durable and best sounding method. As a side benefit to learning this method or rather creating it,lol, I have also learned how to re heat cymbals and also adjust cooling rates to affect a cymbals sound.

I have a few that I have "cooked" just to alter their tone and sustain, kinda neat really, I was able to cook this cymbal below and take out some of the nasty "bite" it had. It was just to bright and had a harmonic bend to it, that made me hate it lol. Baked that sucker for a few hours, it lost that nasty harmonic bend and now has a nice "even" attack and sustain.

[IMG][IMG]http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/14pagan88/ZBT18tigged02.jpg[/IMG][/IMG]

I can't imagine spending any time or effort trying to fix the ZBT B8 sheet bronze cymbal shown in the photo, other than drilling a hole to stop the crack, but if its rewarding to you, go for it. As for durability, I have personally never seen a crack extend past a drilled hole in normal use. I also can't imagine how heating the cymbal, grinding it, and adding metal, which you agree is not permanent, is a better solution. I'm not a cymbal maker, and perhaps you have more experience with cymbal design than I, but I would also personally never attempt to "cook" a good quality cymbal in an attempt to modify its tone. Perhaps trying it on a low quality expendable cymbal might be an interesting experiment, but none of my cymbals fit in that category.

With regard to cracks in general, I always wonder what causes them. Is it a defect in the metal? Poor handling? Or poor playing? I have been playing for over 50 years (since I was a kid) and have never cracked a cymbal yet. My son has played for over 13 years and he has also never cracked one.

Cymbals break because of metal fatigue. Also many HIGH quality cymbals are made from B8 bronze,Paiste 2002 series comes to mind. I still play with 1 ZBT in my set, in fact an older ZBT round stamp 18" crash ride ;I have found to be an awesome cymbal that actually crashes and rides really freakin good!

Also metal fatigue in bronze is common, bronze can be cold worked, which means that as you hit it, it can become harder and brittle, and then break. Breaking is caused by fatigue which is brought about quicker or slower depending on technique, so yeah poor playing is the primary cause IMO, especially in my case lol.

And I challenge you or your son to play some heavy metal for a year or 2, then tell me you ain't broke no cymbals lol. Swing, Jazz, Hip Hop, Traditional country, Big Band; all styles of music that probably DON'T break alot of cymbals. Not saying you play any of those, but music style has a BIG influence on cymbal life.

Clearly what you say is true. Heavy metal is very rough on cymbals and heads, but technique does come into the mix. For those types of musical situations finer cymbals might not be appropriate anyway since their subtleties and tonal qualities would likely become lost under the loudness of the music and they could be prone to damage. I would hate to destroy an incredible sounding $2000 Istanbul K playing music where the beautiful tonality of such a cymbal would be lost anyway.

The first set of cymbals I bought my son when he was a kid were ZBT's The 13" hi hats were not awful, But the 18" crash/ride and 14" crash were pretty terrible. As a result, I would have to strongly disagree that a ZBT 18" crash/ride is an awesome cymbal.You can play it loud and don't have to worry too much if you break it because its easily replaceable, but beyond that I wouldn't recommend them.

My son is now a professional musician who gigs at least 3 times a week. While he doesn't play heavy metal, he does play rock, funk, country, jazz, Latin, musicals, and many other styles. He plays heavy when he needs to. Most of the cymbals he gig's with are 40 to 60 years old and were carefully selected after long listening sessions for their tonality. While some B8 cymbals are better then others, you mentioned Paiste 2002's, in general cast cymbals are far superior. The ZBT line was designed as affordable entry level cymbals for students, the fact that they may work for some types of music notwithstanding. This section of the Vintage Drum Forum is concerned primarily with high quality vintage cymbals which are in a whole different league from ZBT's.

In the end though, play what you enjoy!

True dat...:-)