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"Old school" micing techniques

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interested in the idea of home micing, I became curious on the best way to mic drums. Now,it is common practice to use multiple mics in various positions.

But, watching some old black and white videos, I notice that either one or no mics are used. For example, Joe Morello in "Sounds of the Loop" (youtube it). The only mic used sits behind the hi-hat stand, and he has possibly one of the greatest recording snare sounds I have ever heard complimented by great sound toms and bass as well. I am thinking if I would so the same thing, similar tone correct?

What was the general aim for micing drums back then? Is it really necessary to shell out for more than just one overhead mic?

Bopworks Hickory Jazz Drumsticks
http://www.youtube.com/user/mgimino
Posted on 15 years ago
#1
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Hey MichaelSJ!... here's a "thumbnail" answer to your query:

Generally speaking, if you are listening to and watching a lot of Jazz, then TWO mikes are almost always sufficient. The overhead is usually a phantom powered "HOT" condenser which will literally pick up the entire kit topside, almost "as the drummer hears it" if you will. The other mike is of course for the bass drum as there is no way that the low frequency of that drum will get heard without it's own mike... then the two are "mixed" for a nice blend in the house. I worked with a Frank Sinatra Show all summer and sound was provided in all the venues. For the most part, my drums were miked with just two mikes as I have described here... the sound was excellent. I have digital video on some of these shows that I am working on getting edited, then I will post 'em up. The two mike system works very well in the jazz idiom! Close miking is also done here and there of course, and contingent on how good the sound engineer is, it can sound incredibly full. At one of the last venues we played, the sound engineer miked the entire kit... ( close miked ) ... the drums did sound incredible. The pic that is my avatar right above shows the two mike system to excellent advantage!

Tommyp

Posted on 15 years ago
#2
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So... to finish and actually answer your question! ( I posted a bit late last night and never did finish what I wanted to tell you! )...

For your "home recording" purposes, you could most certainly "get by" with just one mike as it is a really controlled enviornment, ie: very little if any background noise. Again the mike should be a condenser type as it will pick up everything, with an overhead type placement being a fine starting point. Experimentation here will supply the best results I think, and of course so will your ear! For a little fuller/balanced sound:

A bass drum mike in addition to the condenser would be great, unless you are going for a vintage type jazz recording ala Morello as you have mentioned. It is amazing how well and balanced the drum kit gets picked up by just an overhead when in a controlled enviornment such as your drum room, etc. The other small issue with multiple mikes would be inputs. Unless you have a couple inputs on your recorder, you would now need a small mixer to handle the additional mike/mikes. Yet another vote for trying just the single condenser!

I was amazed at how well my drums sounded/recorded with just two mikes, and that was with two horns, RS, and vocal. In a jazz/swing idiom it works very well.

Tommyp

Posted on 15 years ago
#3
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Ah... now here's a topic I can dig into. I've been recording audio for over 30 years and doing live sound for about the last 10 of those years. I can give you several "Old School" techniques as well as a few "New School" ones to boot.

Generally, 2 mics are a minimum to capture a balanced sound. 3 are better and of course one on each drum with a pair of stereo overheads is possibly the best, depending on what sound you're going for.

We'll stick with minimal mics for this though. As Tommy said, one overhead won't really pick up the kick, in all it's glory, so a proper kick mic is needed. This would be a mono setup, not stereo BTW.

For the overhead, use a good quality pencil type condenser mic. Prices start around $50.00 and your average $100.00 to $200.00 mic will sound pretty good. All condenser mics require phantom power (48 volts) and the cheapest way to get it is to buy a small mixer w/phantom power. Any of the budget mixers by Behringer , Alesis, etc... will do.

For the kick, you'll want a dedicated kick mic as opposed to a standard vocal mic. This should be a dynamic mic, not a condenser. Dynamics are more focused and will pick up less of the other bits in your kit. The AKG D 112 is an industry standard kick mic and in fact, I believe it's the mic used on TommyP's kick in his avatar. There are cheaper mics for this purpose - Just google "kick mic" and I'm sure you'll find plenty.

Placement is the next thing. The best mic will sound like poop if it's not placed in the proper spot. That said, there is no science to the proper placement of mics. You usually need to experiment a bit to find your own "sweet spot" on a given it. Start with the overhead centered above the kit, pointing down at a height of about 2 - 3 feet above your highest cymbal.

For the kick, you really need to play with the position to get the sound you want. Placing the mic into a port on the front head will yield more of the beater attack and less of the low end and shell. Move it back about 6 inched from the port and you'll get more thump and less beater. Place the mic dead center, about 6 inches from the head and you'll get some of the beater, plenty of low end, and less ring from the reso head.

On to the Old School techniques - I guess the simplest form of micing would be a single large diaphragm condenser or ribbon mic placed in front of the kit, about 4 - 5 feet high and about 6 or more feet away from the kit. This would give you an old school jazz sound from say, the 30's or 40's. Mic's were expensive back then so many studios had only a few on hand. The deal was... set up the mic and them move the musicians around the room till you got your balance right. Drums were usually the furthest away from the mic because they were loudest.

The problem with the one mic setup is that you need a good sounding room to start with. Small rooms are not a good choice for this technique as they generally sound boxy. Drums need a little space to breathe, in order to sound natural.

Another old school technique is the same as described above by TommyP. Many of the early Beatles recordings as well as many jazz recordings in the 60's were done this way.

The late 60's and early 70's saw the close multi-mic setup becoming popular. Reso heads were removed, mics were shoved up into the shells, lots of duct tape and napkins on the skins, etc... This is the thumpy, un-natural sound you hear on many rock records from this era. Funny that these days, we're going back to the simpler techniques where the mics are pulled back a bit from the kit to get a more "real" or natural sound from the kit.

Modern/semi-modern techniques - Popular today, the recorderman 2 mic technique is pretty decent sounding. Rather than explain it, here's a link to a video showing each step - [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiFOD1EeKhQ[/ame]

Add a kick mic to this setup, and you can fill out the bottom end of the sound a bit. Biggest tradeoff here is that your cymbals tend to be a bit overpowering unless you play with a light touch.

Wow! That's a lot of typing - LOL!!! Like I said, recording is my "other" passion, drumming being number one.

I'm in the process of tweaking the sound in my NEW recording studio so I'm playing around a lot with drums and mics. If anyone is interested, I can put up some sound files of the various techniques so you can hear for yourselves.

Vintage Snares Vintage Kits
Posted on 15 years ago
#4
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Woah, now that is an indepth response Big daddy. Thanks both of you for your insights.

I believe that I'll use the two mic set up, one for the kick drum and the condensor mic with the phantom powered mixer.

And I would imagine I would need some kind of interface for my laptop?

As of now:

Shure Beta 52A Kick Drum Mic

Some kind of condensor mic, I have no idea which one to pick, not top of the line though thats for sure

A phantom powered mixer, prowling around on Musiciansfriend nothing jumps out me with that description, any suggestions.

Thanks again guys

Bopworks Hickory Jazz Drumsticks
http://www.youtube.com/user/mgimino
Posted on 15 years ago
#5
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No problem Michael. Here are a couple of mixers with phantom power.

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Behringer-Xenyx-802?sku=631263

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Tapco-Mix.100-Compact-Mixer?sku=630264

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Peavey-PV6-Mixer?sku=631366

And here are some inexpensive overheads.

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Nady-CM88-Condenser-Microphone?sku=277048

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Audix-Fusion-F15-Cymbal-Microphone?sku=270282

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/CAD-CM217-Condenser-Mic-Buy-One-Get-One-FREE?sku=271324

If you have a few more bucks to spend, buy an Oktava MK-012 for your overhead. It's one of the best overheads out there - I own and use them myself.

Finally, here are a couple of USB interfaces. You didn't specify Mac or PC so I chose boxes compatible with both.

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Behringer-UCONTROL-UCA202-USBAudio-Interface?sku=702540

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/MAudio-MobilePre-USB-Portable-Audio-Interface?sku=701368

The M-Audio interface has mic inputs with phantom power, so you could eliminate the mixer if you bought it. Of course, the mixer might come in handy later if you wanted to use it live or something.

Hope this helps - Keep us posted!

Vintage Snares Vintage Kits
Posted on 15 years ago
#6
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Woo thanks alot big daddy for your help and wisdom, I'm gonna have a delayed start however since I had to shell out to re head my current set. Might be a little bit before I set aside some cash but I'll get there eventually.

Bopworks Hickory Jazz Drumsticks
http://www.youtube.com/user/mgimino
Posted on 15 years ago
#7
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Hey, I know how that goes. Let us know when you have your setup and please, post some sound files!!

Vintage Snares Vintage Kits
Posted on 15 years ago
#8
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