hi there.
i've recently been hired for a gig where there is a fair amount of 20's/30's jazz
(im much more versed in bebop/postbop...) so right now i'm using a broken istanbul splash as my "hot" cymbal (they requested i use a hot cymbal), its ok, but i think if i knew more what the old guys used for hot cymbals, i'd have a better idea of what im goin for....so, can anyone tell me anything about what the old cats used to use for hot cymbals?
thanks n happy new year to all.
That's a new one on me. I've never heard that term.
It would be a fair bet to go with some vintage Avedis Zildjian cymbals, in my opinion....thin ones and nothing larger than 16". Yes, I know that Avedis Zildjian models didn't exist back in the 20's and 30's, but just try finding a decent old K and then get back to m! heh heh)
Back in the 20's and 30's larger cymbals were not used (as far as I know)...and cymbals were not used to "ride" on. They were used only for small embellishments. Things like wood blocks and temple blocks were probably "ridden" on more than the cymbals.
FYI...I sometimes use my Ludwig "Junior" kit on certain gigs (It's based upon an early drum set design) and it has a two-tone wood block and a small, thin "Chinese" cymbal that hangs from a swan-neck hoop-mounted cymbla holder (suspended from a leather strap). If you were to see this rig, you would understand that it wasn't ever intended for "ride" work. It was likely intended to be played with one hand and "choked" intermittently on the backbeat with the opposite hand during certain solos.
That Ludwig "Junior" kit is nice I saw it in the Gallery
Hot Cymbols are 10 inch played as O-lugs stated with little flourishes or the closest thing to a ride beat.
Keys or sticks were often held to the cymbol to give it color or a buzz
I have uploaded some images from the jazz age instruction book "Hot Cymbol Breaks"
When you go back that far, the ride cymbal, or the concept of riding a cymbal didn't really exist. Most time keeping was done on the snare, a press roll, where the right hand taps 1-2-3-4 with the left hand dragging a buzz on 2 and 4. The bass drum is played on all 4s for slower numbers, 1-3 for moderate to faster tunes. There was also the use of temple and wood blocks for time keeping, which was played with rudimental patterns and not really "riden." There is one method used live involving a splash cymbal, which was hit and choked right away on 2 and 4. Paul Barbarin used that frequently.
Actually when I think about it, I'm not really sure who first used it or how they came up with it. It was probably influenced by washboard players from the 20s. I'm thinking I could hear that pattern on an old Zutty Singleton recording, I'll look into it more. edit: ahh yes, you can hear him using it on a bunch of early Jelly Roll Mortan Trio recordings dated 1929. So there you have some nice little trivia now.
Anyway, a "hot" cymbal is purely subjective. There isn't really a definitive sound for that, it is the first time I have ever heard that term. Well stick with O-lugs suggestion and you should be fine, you wouldn't be using cymbals alot anyway so good luck wit the gig
Awesome thread guys. Love the history lesson.
Thanks.Cool1
There is a band in the UK that specializes in the music of the 20s and 30s called The Pasadena Roof Orchestra. I first got a recording of them back in 1975 and they are excellent and very authentic. The drummer sounds like those old recordings except the audio is very very good. The drummer seems to use both vintage and not so vintage kits.. here's a few pictures from the PRO website:
[IMG]http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f357/onemat/Share/pro3.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f357/onemat/Share/PRO4.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f357/onemat/Share/PRO1.jpg[/IMG]
[Their website is at: http://www.pasadena.co.uk/english/orchestra/swing_that_music/
So far I have only found one short video of them but there's got to be others: http://www.pasadena.co.uk/fileserver/pasadenarooforchestra/FILES/29.mpg
I'm searching my space for good video examples of the band...
Matt
I played in a dixieland jazz band for a while and used a two-piece WFL set from the 40's. I would use a Ray Bauduc twin strainer snare drum as well as I have been collecting those for a while now. As for my cymbals I would use a 12" pair of zildjians from the 30's, a 12" crash and a 10" crash all Zildjian. I also would use a woodblock. Those little Zildjians worked great and made the music sound great.
I would often ride on my hats or the snare drum. That seemed to get the sound most authentic. I used to also end song with just a crash/choke on the 10" zildjian all by itself. That was cool too. Good luck as it sounds like a fun band.
