You call it "dull", some call it "mellowed". It's all in the ear of the beholder. I used to love bright cymbals, but I've converted to the dark side...

As pointed out "dull" is really a matter of opinion. As a jazz player, I don't want bright pingy cymbals. As to loss of value, that's real. If you take a 60 year old Old K, and remove 60 years of patina IT WILL BE WORTH LESS! How much less of course depends on market forces. This is true of any antique, musical instrument or not. When it comes to antiques, the rule of thumb is "when in doubt, don"t clean it"

The fact that you prefer cymbals polished is certainly no crime although I feel just the opposite. However based on your preference I would suggest avoiding the purchase of expensive old cymbals if you plan on cleaning them.

Besides the historical value and aesthetic reasons for not cleaning them, potential buyers of expensive vintage cymbals will be wary because they will not confident HOW you cleaned them. Some chemicals are not good for the metal. And buffing of any kind is a real "no no". When I'm looking for vintage cymbals on eBay, I don't even bother with highly polished ones unless the price is very low AND there is a good sound clip.

Well of the vintage cymbals I have (besides one) they are still dirty and funky. I noticed a small sound difference when I polished one cymbal (60's 22' ride) but nothing that I couldn't live without.

I do disagree with the idea that all antiques should be kept with original funk (patina, paint, etc). Lots of vintage cars for example all have newer or at least polished paint jobs.

Can you imagine purchasing a 57 Chevy that has never been polished or waxed? You would certainly not expect to get the same money as a clean car.

I understand cymbals are WAY different.

Is there any proof that a polished old K would not bring as much money as a non-polished?

I do not want to sound like a opinionated jerk...I would simply like to get facts. I am new to the vintage drum world and would like to be up on the trends.

It used to be that a polished old K was as bad as a rewrapped drum, but those days seem to be over...I don't think polishing old cymbals is as big of a "no-no" as it was in the past. I've seen polished old K's sell for extremely high money, and I've seen heavily patina'd old K's fizzle out on ebay.

In terms of sound, in my experience a cleaned cymbal is more "alive" - more bright overtones, washier, louder, longer decay. Elvin always cleaned his cymbals, and he usually played in environments where he could be quite loud and bombastic (he constantly cracked his cymbals).

An old K with a lot of patina is darker, more dry, shorter decay...this appeals to the jazz guys that are going for a dry tone, especially in bop type music where there is a lot going on, and you want the tone to speak quickly and get out of the way. This goes hand-in-hand with Gretsch RB drums...they are dry, the tone speaks quickly, and they get out of the way. Great for a jazz trio gig in a small, subdued and low volume environment.

I notice when people come over to try old K's or A's, drummers that prefer cleaned/polished cymbals generally start playing them loud right away, like DING DINGA DING DINGA DING!!!! Guys that prefer the patina generally start playing them quite softly right off the bat, like they've used to playing in controlled situations such as a restaurant. Not always true, but enough for me to notice.

Thanks,

Bill

That statement is pretty much all there is to this.

[FONT=Arial Black]You Prefer ...[/FONT]

There's nothing more needed here. All this crap is just that ... fecal matter. If you're ears tell you that it sounds better when it's clean, then by all means clean it. If [FONT=Arial Black]You Prefer[/FONT] a dirty cymbal, then leave the stank upon it and whack away to disc bliss.

As far as value goes ... there is not a well-connected group of political power-mongering purists who set the value of cymbals. A cymbal will sell for what it will sell for. The buyer will always determine worth and price. That's the nature of the free market.

So, if someone tells you that the value will diminish when you clean a cymbal ... tell them to stick it in their ear and move on to greener pastures.

But, that's just one man's opinion ... mind you, this man is a bit overweight and somewhat inflexible ... but, still only counts as one vote.

Not sure if this was aimed at me, but firstly if the original poster likes the sound of clean cymbals, so be it. They're his cymbals after all.

However, with regard to cymbal value, I strongly believe that cleaned cymbals can bring a lower price at auction. Forgetting cars for the moment, most buyers of antiques want the object in original condition. They often prefer to do any repairs/upgrades or cleaning themselves so they know it's been done correctly.

Secondly, most purchasers of vintage cymbals want them "dirty" and keep them "dirty" after purchase. (I put dirty in quotes because I would never consider a good patina as dirt.) This preference can be easily seen by looking at the vintage cymbal market. The overwhelming majority of vintage cymbals for sale are not polished. Many have a patina thats 30 to 70 years old. And I don't include A Zildjians from 1980 on as real vintage cymbals. If sellers of vintage cymbals could get more by polishing them they would. If buyers wanted them polished they would do so after purchase, and as a result we would see many more polished cymbals in the market when they're resold. But... we don't. As a result, the market has spoken.

I might spend $2500 or more on an unpolished 22 Old K, but I'll be darned If I would spend that much on a polished one, especially not knowing how it was polished. I would not want a cymbals at that price cleaned with Brasso. I would not want a cymbal at that price buffed by machine. I would be very wary of such a cymbal as are others potential buyers. Its hard to determine how much the value would go down, but I expect there would be fewer bidders for a polished $3000 cymbal than an unpolished one. And further, the final bid on such an expensive cymbal would likely be lower than it otherwise might.

Aimed at you? No. I hit the targets I aim at. Why would you think this was directed at you? Are you the head of some evil underground power mongering cymbal collective that exists to maintain the stranglehold on all cymbal values or something?

What an odd thing to say. Why would I attack you? Have you done something that I'm not yet aware?

Where's my cat?

DAMN YOU!!!

I've had my 50's K's since the early 70's and clean them lightly maybe every 5-10 years. I just don't want any green muck to accumulate but I also don't want to remove even the slightest amount of cymbal. So I do it very, very lightly with a known brand cymbal cleaner. Water is your friend when cleaning cymbals.

I've never noticed that much difference (or any) after I cleaned any cymbal, even ones that were dull that ended up shiny, and I've always wondered if it's psychological (shiny=brighter?), although it's logical enough - if you put masking tape on a cymbal it will make it duller, thus the grime should muffle it too. I just never noticed it.

My favorite K looked like there are barely any grooves on the top side from the time I bought it in the 70's. I guess it sounded so good that the guy before me kept hitting it!

I assume that's your sense of humor talking. And yes, I am the head of an evil underground power mongering cymbal collective conspiracy to dominate the used cymbal market. I have a few vintage K's at present as well as a dozen or more vintage A's. I'm cornering the market. But how did you know? What gave me away?