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Paiste 602 vs Zildjian A ride?

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Hey y'all, first post on here.

right, I want to get a vintage ride cymbal for recording. unfortunately I live in the middle of nowhere in the UK so I am unable to go to a shop and play them.

the choice is between an early 70's 20" Paiste 602 and an early 70's 20" Zildjian Avedis. I recently bought an early 70's avedis hi-hat which I'm very happy with so I'm leaning more towards the zildjian. do you have any idea what each sound like or have opinions on either? is one better or worth more than the other? I'm looking for a fairly warm ride, with not too much "ping". I know theres only so much you can know without actually playing them but any information would be greatly appreciated.

thanks a lot.

Posted on 11 years ago
#1
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The Paiste 602 is a much more costly instrument, ( a prized find, w/ many fans). ..But, I find Zildjians to be a warmer & more interesting voice. They also seem to have more striking zones for different sounds. (always try them out in person, cymbals can be very disappointing bought sight unseen. And remember, they have to fit in as part of your cymbal set).

Posted on 11 years ago
#2
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The reissue 602s sound much like the old ones so if you have access to decent speakers or headphones then you can go and listen to them in a number of places on the web. I'm thinking

http://paiste.com/e/cymbals.php?category=1&family=26&action=category&menuid=342

http://mycymbal.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=19_95

http://cymbalsonly.com/cymbals/paiste/paiste.htm

because I'm familiar with their sound files.

As for a 1970s 20" A. Zildjian, you might be looking at different sounds depending on the weight (and other factors -- but weight is the easy one to pick when you are stuck in the middle of nowhere). You can probably find examples of the variation I'm talking about at

http://www.hazelshould.com/browse/rides?b%5B%5D=1&t%5B%5D=14&c=All&min=&max=

but also check out his crash-ride section. Hazelshould also has lots of Zildjian hats, so if you are being really thorough in your research you could have a listen to those (and compare them with your own) to calibrate your ears to Gerry's recordings.

Then there is YouTube. Not everything there is recorded well (in fact some are downright awful), but you should be able to find decently recorded examples of both the Paiste and Zildjians of your target period.

Sound files aren't as good as hearing the cymbal in person, but if you haven't got anything else to go on it should add some information.

Posted on 11 years ago
#3
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I have had real good luck with 602's..

In fact,I used to HATE A.Zils when I was younger,....

then, I hit a 18" 602 Crash..in around 1972-73....about fell off my throne...it sounded so musical compared to the A.Zils....

YMMW

Blair

PS..my user name on Feebay is formula602...if that tells you anything!

"Always make sure your front bottom BD lugs clear the ground!"
Posted on 11 years ago
#4
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thanks for replying.

the guy selling the zildjian has told me it weighs roughly 2390 grams. is this fairly heavy for an old 20" ride? I've seen some advertised as "heavy rides", would this be one of those and are they not so desirable?

thanks again.

Posted on 11 years ago
#5
Posts: 1427 Threads: 66
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I can't speak of Paiste cymbals as my very first cymbal was/is a Zildjian and I have not strayed from them very much (a Wuhan china cymbal [which, by the way, was MORE difficult to pick out] and a small ran-can bell effect cymbal [AKA "the ash tray"] is about it).

Zildjians are very complex. Weight can tell a fair bit in a crash, but I've found it tells nothing in a ride.

Besides weight, the curve (or bow) has a distinct impact.

Bell size and shape

The stick you use on it (of particular importance with regards to sound files recorded by others and critical on a ride!)

Where exactly the weight is- is it even thickness bell to edge or is it thicker toward the bell and thin on the edge? In this case two identical weight cymbals can have radically different behaviors.

I have a 20" ping ride (I like a lot of 'stick') and I also have a 22" ping ride. I thought the 22 would be 'more' of what I get with the 20- more volume and some more wash (since the 20 is a tiny,tiny bit dry). WRONG. The 22 is a totally different animal- like if it did not have the ink on it, I would not peg it as a ping ride at all. Still a cool cymbal, but not at all what I was expecting.

What does all this mean? As inconvenient as it may be, either you will be buying and selling a lot of cymbals to find the right one, or you need to drive to the cymbal (and bring a 'key' cymbal with you- I use my 16" thin crash for this) and play it and your key one yourself. That is the only way.

Paiste's may be more consistent from cymbal to cymbal but I don't have the experience with them to say for sure.

EDIT=> I wanted to add that although Zildjians are more work to find the perfect ones, once you do, it is very hard to replicate that. Each one is very unique, so even replicating the entire set-up of so-and-so drummer you may not have any of the same sounds...

Cobalt Blue Yamaha Recording Custom 20b-22b-8-10-12-13-15-16f-18f
Red Ripple '70's Yamaha D-20 20b-12-14f
Piano Black Yamaha Recording Custom Be-Bop kit 18b-10-14f
Snares:
Yamaha COS SDM5; Yamaha Cobalt Blue RC 5-1/2x14; Gretsch round badge WMP; 1972 Ludwig Acrolite; 1978 Ludwig Super Sensitive; Cobalt Blue one-off Montineri; Yamaha Musashi 6.5X13 Oak; cheap 3.5X13 brass piccolo
Posted on 11 years ago
#6
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From sandwell

thanks for replying.the guy selling the zildjian has told me it weighs roughly 2390 grams. is this fairly heavy for an old 20" ride? I've seen some advertised as "heavy rides", would this be one of those and are they not so desirable?thanks again.

That's not too heavy. My F602 medium ride is 2415 g and I know another guy has one that is 2480 g. Mine is definitely not a "heavy" ride. It is warm, shimmery and washy. Still has good stick definition but not pingy in the least.

Posted on 11 years ago
#7
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2390 is over 5 Lbs...

I personally would call it a Heavy.......

"Always make sure your front bottom BD lugs clear the ground!"
Posted on 11 years ago
#8
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In my flipping, I once sold off an A from the 60s - was the best one I ever heard (should have kept it) and it was 2400 grams. I now have a 505, but can not say much about the 602s. Not sure if 2 different 2400 gram As would sound different or not.....but would be a great place to start. Someday I intend on buying one again - and will start there at 2400.

Best blessings!

John

I had a great day! Instead of sleeping in and wasting the day, I got up at 8 and I had all my slacking done by noon!

2Timothy1:7
Posted on 11 years ago
#9
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Look at Vintage Classic Cymbals too.

Posted on 11 years ago
#10
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