I'm not wanting to be the naysayer and my intention of joining this post was not to be against anyone individual or web site, but to share my eBay experience.

As stated I sell in three different stores, in at least 20 different eBay categories at any given time, so my selling is different then most people.

I also sell for other people that need to unload lots of items, because selling is a lot of work and most people do not understand the effort it takes to sell on eBay. (already mentioned)

Most of the sellers complaining, I would assume, do not know the most efficient way to do things. I have simplified the process, templatized my selling, simplified the photo and listing process and never travel to drop off packages.

I'm not the best example for most people, but if someone out there wants to achieve a new level, then my experience is what I like to share and the reason I originally stated I have no problem with eBay.

I speak from years of experience on many levels.

David

yet another reason i don't sell on ebay anymore. don't get me wrong, i used to sell on there and i will still "look around", but i probibly won't sell on there again.

i just sell thru my site and cut out the middle man. and most of buyers (some from this forum too) are looking to other ways to buy items and save money instead of buying on ebay. so no complaints here.

ebay has been effected by the economy like everyone else. so like a bank for example, they have to invent ways to make back the money they're losing in the form of more fees.

nowadays people are selling stuff cause they need the money.in turn they have to sell low and take a hit on the sale cause buyers can't afford to buy as much as it is (generally speaking) and buyers know this and are looking for those "killer deals" they couldn't get atleast 5 years ago. its great for the buyers...not so great for the sellers.

charging the seller for shipping?...too far. even for the regular joe that sells a average amount on the site.

what i really see happening is that ebay has a master plan in mind. its drifting away from a auction site were the everyday guy can sell stuff, into some sort of maga store. like the walmart of the internet were they force dealers to sell to them in bulk for less, inturn sell to you for a lower price, THEN hit you with all their fees.i really haven't had time to think about it, but there's something fishy in the land of "the bay".

i bet real soon there's going to be a backlash and most likely a protest of ebay were users will stop selling all around the world on a spacific day and they will be forced to go back to basics.

I truly think ebay is fine for knick knacks, beanie babies, old cardboard games etc....it is the ultimate Yard Sale.

For more real purchases,there are other and better ways, here are some facts.

I looked on ebay for a high end audio product called Audio Research, they make amps,preamps,cd players etc, tube and solid state,most ARC(as they are normally caled) sells in th 2-10k range.

On ebay there are about 273 listings, of those a good chunk were for, t shrits, brochures, misc. tubes etc, in short low dollar items, the rest were electronics.

I checked completed sales for the last week or so, a total of 3 units.

Then i went to Audiogon, the specailty hi end site.

A little over a 100 items listed, But all were electronics, meaning expensive stuff.

In the last week or so 22 ITEMS were SOLD, and a 23 rd about to go.

So here is this little unknown site, doing big sales and big dollar sales.

Specailty sites can and do work, it is simply up to the community that is served, to use them. And with Audiogon it works out great for both buyer and seller, which is the whole goal...of any site.

I am so happy Drum sale has come along, I just sold a snare drum on ebay for $350.00 only had to pay that sorry azz ebay $34.00 for the privilage, that Isn't a joke! I will only sale trinkets on ebay if at all much longer, I hope many many sellers start to figure it out. ebay cares only about ebay nothing else period!

I'm still not sure why we are comparing high end audio gear web site to eBay.

Ultimate yard sale... Hmmm.. That's funny... There are plenty of items in the upper high end that sell every day in every category.

Regardless, do you read my posts? "With any high-end niche market, there will be communities that support buying and selling."

So we agree on that and you bring up a mute point....

I do not think drum gear is high end. Well, most of it is not. There are some high end gear and vintage sets in that category, but I do not see many people buying $10,000 kits.. or even $8,000 kits or even $5,000 kits on eBay or anywhere, it just does not happen that often compared to just single drums, cheaper kits, beater kits and parts.

So, a site that features just drums will need to sell a lot of stuff to bring in big dollars like a high end audio gear site.

Like I said, I'm not going to be the naysayer and I have plenty to say but I will not say it here. I know the Internet really well and considered an expert in that area.

David

Before Audiogon, the only place to buy and sell audio equipment in an auction style format was ebay. Then they came along and fello audio enthusiasts joined up...and it grew. It was focused, flexible and offered lower fees.

In my opinion the term"high end" is not just price. But making a quality product for a specific market...and it can be a modest price.

ex. In audio there is a company called Rega, made in england,they are known for making, very good sounding gear, at an affordable price.

I would consider them high end.

I guess we agree to disagree, I do consider most drums hi end.

Meaning most of the drums out there the avg parent is not going to buy for their child. They go down to GC get the cheapest kit and zbt cymbals and call it a day. And why shouldn't they, they want to get out of there for the lowest possible price.

They aren't going to look on ebay for a used DW kit or a Brady snare etc.They don't even know what they are.

I guess my real reference to Audiogon was, if a site that focuses on just audio can work, why not one for just drums...and at way less fees.

I don't know if I am an expert on the internet or ebay, but I have been on ebay motors since the beginning and every time they make a change they hurt the seller, and NEVER listened to them.

I just acquired a 1963 Buick Riviera with 23k original miles...ebay will be the last place it goes.....3yrs ago it would have been the 1st.

But hey this what a fine forum like this is about, to exchange ideas and opinions, and we can agree and disagree, nothing wrong with that.

Very simple on many levels.

Ebay charges that much because they can. If they think they can gouge you a percent or two more down the road, they will. Why? Because complaints mean nothing to them as long as you are continuing to list items or buy items while you are complaining. They simply do not care. Why should they if they are still getting your money?

The only way to send them a message is to get into their bottom line, which means a total boycott of their site on a massive level. This probably isn't going to happen anytime soon. So, the fees will be here to stay and will continue to increase with time. I am also pretty confident that they employ a staff or a consulting firm to keep close tabs on things and to make sure they are charging as much as they possibly can. They will also factor the ratio of lost business due to fee hikes vs. overall profit from the fee hikes. Profit margin will be the deciding factor in all decisions. They don't care about anybody that has ever or will ever use their site. Capitol is king!

I choose to abstain from that site and still have never completed a single transaction on there, which entitles me to rip them to shreds free of hypocrisy.

toodles,

drumhack band2Group HugClapping Happy2Storm Trooper:o

I'd prefer a more specific clientele. I've done some great and smooth deals through this forum.

My idea is to use this forum and then voluntarily contribute a small stipend for the ongoing maintenance of this site.

That way, I know the clientele is interested and has seen pictures and can ask many questions and collect massive amounts of information before they buy (or not). People can read my posts and see my years of participation here. That shows I am a trustworthy sort of chap and that rep means more than feedback on eBay when it comes to vintage drum selling....at least I would expect so!

But I'm curious about Drum Sell, as well...it's just that I am very cautious because I don't have a lot of trust for my fellow human these days. I'd probably give it a try sometime. Shame on ME if it goes wrong. But if it goes right, then that would be cool! It's always good to have alternatives.

I'll say it once more. An auction site is geared to maximize profit AND savings, depending on if you are the buyer or seller. If you are the seller, you celebrate market value by reaping great profit for your kit if it goes into a bidding war. If you are a buyer, you celebrate snagging a great deal with low bids on a no reserve auction. Many times, that leads to the prospect of 'flipping' the kit. Very often, an auction concludes with a Win-Lose scenario.

That's an icky way to do business.

But, if you sell your kit to an INDIVIDUAL who has taken the time to ask questions because he/she has searched out the kit ... there is great reward for that deal. Both parties are good with the price. There are no hard feelings about profit or loss. Friendships (or at least acquaintences) are established. Either way, bonds are formed that lead to a deeper understanding and appreciation of the drums.

I've used eBay in the past. I've always come out on top with a fairly healthy profit. But, I'm steering towards avoiding it these days for the very reasons I've listed. The deals feel hollow to me. I even take the time to check in with the 'winner' the following weeks to a month or two, just to be sure I've answered all questions and to check for buyers remorse. It's unusual, but it's important to me.

All of the drums I've purchased or sold to individuals at websites, in stores, or even on this forum have been good deals. They were satisfying. I have learned from others in a way that really cannot be measured when comparing the auction style deals. One of the things I've noticed lately is that trust is a rare commodity. I trust very few. Considering the pure numbers of hits (hundreds) on an auction, I doubt that many of those would be what I would call 'ethical' individuals. It's contrary to the high profit/low price schema that is built.

I'm not dogging the alternative. I honestly hope it does well. I would like to see more BuyItNow or an honest For Sale section there to maybe blur the auction style format. It's available on eBay and one that I use when I sell these days on that site (less and less often these days).

Drumhack, you hit the nail on the head spot on about ebay, it is all about the do re mi and nothing else.

Olugs et al, I should point something out about my SSL certification.

The company that I use is Digicert, they are used by many major companies and industries. The reason is they are incredibly thorough. and not the cheapest. They do a complete check on the applicant and verify all information. So much so that they offer a $ 1 million dollar insurance policy.

Yes 1 million dollars, meaning if somebody buys on a site that they have verified and it goes wrong,and it is proved that I am not the owner/operator of the site....they will pay the claim up to a Million dollars.

So they have backed up what they do in a very impressive way.

I know, Yale, the wall street journal ,USC, and even Nasa use Digicert.

I guess their research showed them that any real hanky panky on the internet starts at the beginning.

Plus as I have said before I have added another level of security, unique to the software, that makes it pretty much impossible for a bad guy to do anything. If someone tries to pull a fast one with a fake or stolen credit card, it simply wont work, cant list anything.

So I hope this helps,thanks.