nice score!

I remember seeing some threads on this series before,I think they were Sabian's early series for the non U.S. Market,as I remember Sabian was not able to sell in the U.S. right away as per the agreement with Robert Zil of Zildjian .Do they look hand hammered like HH's or Machine like AA's ?

Hmmm... I don't know how to tell for sure but I think those indents look like hammering. What should I look for to know for sure?

Those are Italian made cymbals made by Tosco. Cast B20 in the Italian "gravity casting" method which predates Roto-Casting. Check out Pinksterboer's The Cymbal Book, p172

Yes those are hammer marks. Whether they were made by a person swinging a hammer, or guiding a machine which provided the hammering force I can't say. They do have the look of concentric ring hammering guided by a pin:

http://black.net.nz/avedis/hammering.html

but that just desribes the pattern, it doesn't prove "hammer in the hand" versus "machine power hammer". I haven't seen any factory photos of what was going on at Tosco. But I'd guess that is "machine power hammered" given what I see.

Robert Zildjian was a shareholder in Tosco (which was not part of the UFIP group where Roto-casting is now all the rage). Later Sabian took over all the Tosco shares.

During the early Sabian days the Meductic plant had no casting capability because when it was the Canadian Zildjian plant the blanks were sent up to Canada for finishing. Until the Sabian foundry was squeezed into the building, Tosco seemed to be the outlet for Robert to create new cymbals. However, I can't say whether that particular ink stlyle on yours comes from the earliest transition time or a later time when Sabian was up and running casting their own blanks. There are a few different ink styles but as yet no well documented time ordering for them.

Here's what I had to say two years back:

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=47428

not much has changed since then in terms of new information. If you search here on tosco sabian you will find a few other threads. Hope this gets you further.

Awesome! Yes Sir THANK YOU.. I have the cymbal book some place... time to go find it.

Thanks again for the great info.

I've got some 14" hats that say "B20 by Sabian"; pretty sure they also say "Tosco" on them. Nice hats......marko