think the concept was introduced in early to mid 60's. ive read that the top hat was not stamped new beat at that time but the bottoms were. I would expect to see a heavier bottom with that pair to be new beats, traditionally. they could be. but I would think close to 1200 grams on the bottom.

mike

I wonder then if they're early 60's Avedis "A" hats just predating the new beat concept?

Steve

I've posted the following previously. Credit to member Magnus_M.

[COLOR="Blue"]From Magnus_M:

I e-mailed Zildjian asking them about the New Beats. This is their reply:

The "New Beat" concept actually started with the suggestion from the

great drumming artist and Zildjian endorser, Louie Bellson in 1965. He

recommended the use of a heavier bottom cymbal than what was

commonly used up to that point in time. It was actually the bottom

cymbal that was referred to as a "New Beat" (Mr. Bellson actually

coined the term) that could be applied to any weight top cymbal

(medium to thin weights). This went on for a couple of years until a

dedicated New Beat Hihat pairing was established in 1967-68 using a

medium weighted top cymbal to go against the "New Beat" bottom. It

was then that the classic New Beat Hihats were born. Since then, they

have remained our most popular hihat creations.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Black"]Hope this helps.

MW[/COLOR]

Thanks for that info from Magnus. Nice to see it again. I have a copy of it somewhere too.

I'm compiling a timeline of New Beats including years and examples of the changes in ink, plus as many weights as I can lay hands on. At the moment that's 13 pairs of 14" ones, plus 6 pairs of Armands (which were said to be fairly similar to the earlier New Beats weights).

Steve, yes yours sound like they are just Hats rather than New Beats. Both models continued to be made for many years.

The 1st Generation ones with only ink on the bottom look like this, and your ink stamp looks to be of the same style (although from the weights yours aren't New Beats).

[img]http://black.net.nz/cym2014/NewBeatBottom60s.jpg[/img]

Both Magnus and I have a pair from this era. His weigh 826g over 1260g. Mine weigh 975g over 1300g.

By the late 70s (78 begins the hollow Zildjian ink on the bottom according to most sources) they looked like

[img]http://black.net.nz/cym2014/NewBeatHollow.jpg[/img]

Later more ink goes on and we get the model on top along with the solid Zildjian ink:

[img]http://black.net.nz/cym2014/NewBeats80s.jpg[/img]

But I think there is an intermediate step after the hollow ink logos and before the ones shown above. I'm still working on collecting it all up.

A note on dates: Paul Francis also says 1968 for New Beats, but the Zildjian web site (in the Timeline) puts them at 1963. I don't know if that is a mistake. The associated photo is also not consistent with the caption. So I'm thinking the 1968 date is more believable at this point. But then we get to the matter of the pressed in die stamp. The die stamp on my pair are straight up "early 60s" stamps and are the expected 1.25" tall. Not the "later 60s" taller version which is 1.5". I don't know how that sits with the rest of the data I've presented. Maybe Drumaholic (who identified the die stamps and I believe gave the dates we commonly use) knows what it all means.

found this article...

http://www.drumscult.com/cymbals/zildjian-new-beat-hi-hat

mike

Ah ha. Good hunting Mike. So they have both dates...the 1963-1965 as the "bottom hat only" phase and the "by 1968" date for the pair sold as a pair. So everybody is possibly correct, but they might be answering a slightly different question.

Thanks everyone. The wealth of information on this forum is pretty amazing! I thought Zildjian "A" hihats morphed into new beats as the only hihat model in the "A" line. Very interesting to learn differently.

Steve

I picked up a set of 14" hi hat's for my son's set for $79 back in 2010 which weigh 902gm/1098gm and which I assume are New Beats. Unfortunately, someone had polished them so all signs of ink are missing. Drumaholic had indicated these were 60s based on the pictures.

[IMG]http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy309/HerronScott/Zildjian%20Cymbals/100_1064.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy309/HerronScott/Zildjian%20Cymbals/100_1070.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy309/HerronScott/Zildjian%20Cymbals/100_1076.jpg[/IMG]

I also have a set of 15" hi hats that came with a Vistalite set that I purchased in the late 1980s which weigh 1172gm/1314gm and which appear to be early to mid 70s. I assumed these are New Beat's as well although maybe the weight difference isn't large enough (but they do sound great!). Again unfortunately all signs of ink were missing by the time I received them.

[IMG]http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy309/HerronScott/Zildjian%20Cymbals/100_1000.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy309/HerronScott/Zildjian%20Cymbals/100_1003.jpg[/IMG]

Scott

Great photos. Thanks Scott. I'll add those weights to my small but growing set of info.

I've also been meaning to contact you regarding your excellent documentation of the later 70s and 80s stamps. I'm compiling info for a timeline of later A. Zildjian stuff to go into a wiki (like the Paiste-Only wiki which is my inspiration). Or at least a gallery of examples until we can come up with more evidence on dates.

You have one or two threads about these and I'm hoping to enlist your cooperation since you have some good examples. I haven't got any Zildjians later then the 60s, but I thought it would be good to have things documented through the "ink" period and up until modern times. I've got a list of laser serial which I've also started annotating with when models came in and out. But again it is only a skeleton to work from. I rely on others for the detailed info. I'm just handy with computers so I can compile it together and get it up on the web.

Expect a PM here or over on DFO.