hi everyone,
trying to learn the specifics about this ludwig-standard, paiste cymbal.
i'm pretty sure it's a formula 602, as where all? the ludwig paistes......right?
i don't know that for 100% though.
i'm also wondering when ludwig distributed for paiste, and for how long.
this is a 16" "standard" model.
any info regarding this unusual cymbal will be greatly appreciated.
thank you all in advance.
In Late 60's Ludwig Sold A "standard" Drumkit....Paiste Made 2000 Cymbals Specifically For That Drumline (sizes 12" To 20") I At One Time I Have Had 20 Of Those And Still Consider One Of My Prize Possessions To Be A 12" Ludwig Standard/Paiste Cymbal Signed By "The Chief" Himself Who Provided Me Wif That Piece Of Historical Info!!!!!!!
[COLOR="Indigo"]Hi.
Ludwig Standards, or Ludwig Paiste Standards...are NOT to be confused with 602's, or Formula 602's to be precise. The embossed logos look a bit similar, so sometimes there can be confusion.
Standards, Stanoples, and Stambuls were all made out of Paiste's old NS12 alloy...called nickelsilver or nickelbronze. Meinl-Ambico also used NS12 (also produced in W.Germany) Paiste stopped solely using that alloy in '66...then started using B8 and B20 alloy...then in like '70-something started using B15 alloy in their Sound Formulas, etc.
The 602's and Giant Beats from the '60's-80's were the only cymbals where Paiste used the B20 alloy....that is why they are so sought-after.
Only recently, with the Twenty series, has Paiste marketed a B20 alloy cymbal again.
But the NS12 alloy is not a great cymbal alloy, really...it's a tad metallic sounding and doesn't wash a whole lot; and certainly is nothing like the B20 used in the 602's. (However...I have played some Standards and Stambuls and Stanoples which were truly good....but many, many more which were not particularly good at all). That is why, eventually, Paiste stopped using that alloy (the 402 series was the last cymbals produced using NS12).
This is why Ludwig Standards are pretty cheap...and 602's are molto-expensive.
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Good comments by Jaye.
Your cymbal is a Ludwig Standard. There are also Ludwig Paistes which hava a different label and predate the Ludwig Standards. The Paiste/Ludwig marketing deal appears to have started in the late 50's and was most completed by 1969. Ludwig catalogs from that time period do not contain Ludwig standards but directly advertise Paiste cymbals like the Formula 602's.
There is some evidence that some of the "Ludwig" cymbals were B20. The Ludwig Paiste line was identical to the Super line which may also be an early B20 line. Also, take a look at this advertisement for the Ludwig Standards which clearly shows the manufacturing method starting with Formula 602 blanks as the first step. I have seen several cymbals advertised on Ebay as B20 Ludwig Standards. Whether or not the sellers are confused is another question.
[IMG]http://www.postimage.org/aVpv4NJ.jpg[/IMG]
This certainly adds to the crapshoot of buying these cymbals sight unseen. By the way, I agree that the NS12 cymbals can sound wonderful. The major issue that I have seen is condition. Any dent or bend or damage to NS12 really deteriorates the sound quality. Make sure that you get a chance to play these cymbals before you buy them.
thanks so much fella's. i truly appreciate your wisedom, and sharing it with me.
i think i got a pretty good handle on this now.
again i am grateful to you all.
i do have another cymbal i can't figure out. it's called a "elton" that is the stamp on it at any rate. the stamp is clearly factory done. however i can find nothing about this cymbal or the maker of "elton" brand cymbals.
i know it older because the center hole is of the smaller type, just like the older, way older vintage cymbals.
i'll get a pic posted asap of the elton stamp.
if anyone knows anything about this cymbal i'd be greatful to you for some info regarding it's origin and so forth and such.
btw, this particular cymbal is a 14", and it actually sounds really good. it's very colorful and dark in tone, yet very complex. don't know if it's part of a hi-hat set or a crash. it is medium heavy in weight, and holds it's shape quite well.
on the other hand it could be worthless, although, due to the complex tones it creates, i would have to second guess that notion.
any way, i thank you all in advance for any info regarding "elton" cymbals.
good day to you all
[COLOR="Indigo"]Hi.Ludwig Standards, or Ludwig Paiste Standards...are NOT to be confused with 602's, or Formula 602's to be precise. The embossed logos look a bit similar, so sometimes there can be confusion.Standards, Stanoples, and Stambuls were all made out of Paiste's old NS12 alloy...called nickelsilver or nickelbronze. Meinl-Ambico also used NS12 (also produced in W.Germany) Paiste stopped solely using that alloy in '66...then started using B8 and B20 alloy...then in like '70-something started using B15 alloy in their Sound Formulas, etc.The 602's and Giant Beats from the '60's-80's were the only cymbals where Paiste used the B20 alloy....that is why they are so sought-after.Only recently, with the Twenty series, has Paiste marketed a B20 alloy cymbal again.But the NS12 alloy is not a great cymbal alloy, really...it's a tad metallic sounding and doesn't wash a whole lot; and certainly is nothing like the B20 used in the 602's. (However...I have played some Standards and Stambuls and Stanoples which were truly good....but many, many more which were not particularly good at all). That is why, eventually, Paiste stopped using that alloy (the 402 series was the last cymbals produced using NS12).This is why Ludwig Standards are pretty cheap...and 602's are molto-expensive.[/COLOR]
Some later Ludwig/Paiste Standards are made with B20.
All Giant Beats are B8, never B20.
