I think the whole idea of magical sounding cymbals may be a bit out of hand. As another member posted in another thread, not word for word, the only person in your audience who can tell a Sabian B8 from an old K is another drummer!! I liken this phenomenon to a cook who uses a certain, very expensive, sea salt for that magical flavor when the guy eating it just tastes salt; unless he is a chef as well.

In order to temper this for this new member, I am not a pro drummer, never recorded, never gigged etc. I just don't think that a cymbal can sound 2,000 dollars better than another one, which is the basis of my comments. All you eccentrics out there don't get offended either!! LoLoLoLo You know who you are:p

toodles

drumhack Sumo DudeChewie:guitar2

While there may be some truth to your assertion regarding the hearing acuity of the average listener, that is no way it makes the choice of a expensive cymbal invalid. Based on your assumptions, everyone might as well play the cheapest drums with the cheapest cymbals because it makes no difference. But it does, Would you also suggest that a violin vituoso give up his million dollar Strad and and play a $250 student violin? The fact is musicians are artists, and when we play, we play for ourselves first. It doesn't matter what others hear or understand. Having said that, the "right" cymbal can make a significant difference in the overall sound of a performance or recording even if the uniformed listener doesn't consciously realize it.

You indicate you don't record or gig. Do you play in a band? If so what kind of music do you play, and what cymbals do you use. Many gigging drummers can't afford expensive cymbals anyway, but most I know really appreciate the sound of good cymbals.

Good players don't need good equipment to be good. This is true in all things, music, sports, etc. Good equipment simply enhances a good player's talent a smidge further. Go trade clubs with Tiger Woods and see how that goes.......Put Sabian B8's on name-your-favorite-drummer's kit and see how he sounds. Awesome, guaranteed.

If he was a true virtuoso, he could play anything resembling a Violin and make it sound good, but would probably sound a smidge better on that super premium stradaverius.

No, I dont play in a band, never did. I did just pick up a guitar and amp for my son so maybe if I can get the old lady singing and the daughter slappin' some bass we can get a version of the Partridge family goin!!LoLoLoLo

I try to play rock and roll, particularly 80's hair metalCool1 and I have Zildjan A's from late sixties. They pretty much sound like cymbals to me. Same as the rest of 'em in comparable configurations.

I allow for you super guru's to be able to tell a decibel's difference and all that. I just think that too much value is put on super-premium equipment. Players make music. Expensive equipment makes nothing but bills.

Anyways, I didn't mean to offend you guy's who collect these things and all that. I am just putting my perspective on it.

toodles

drumhackChewie:

This is true....to a point. Case in point. Put John Bonham behind any one of the kits he owned/played, maple, vistalite, stainless steel, heck even the small jazz kit he had at his house for Jason, and he still sounds the same behind them all. But....they were all pro-level drumkits that were well made, with pro-level cymbals, that were also well made. I bet if you put him behind a cheap set of MIJ stencil drums of the day with some cheap brass, or even a set of those horrible sounding Sabian B8's (if they were available when he was alive, which they weren't) I'd be hard pressed to say he'd sound as good as he did with his pro-level equipment that he used all the time. Crap still sounds like crap no matter who plays it or how proficient you are at your craft. It would still sound like John Bonham, just not as good......it would sound like John Bonham playing crap! :p

:2Cents:

[COLOR="Red"]"Good players don't need good equipment to be good. "[/COLOR]

Agreed, but good players will perform and sound much better with good equipment. This is true in just about any undertaking.

[COLOR="red"]"If he was a true virtuoso, he could play anything resembling a Violin and make it sound good."[/COLOR]

Again agree. However, the tone, the sustain and everything else would be far inferior to the result obtained on a Strad. Perhaps you can't hear the difference, but others can. Crap is crap. All a good musician can do is make crap more palatable.

My son and I have over 50 cymbals which are used in various combinations to create the sound we're looking for. We also have 9 snare drums of various sizes and materials. They cost between $500 to $800 each. If you really believe that a $100 snare drum from a low end kit sounds as good, than all I can suggest is that you lack experience.

[COLOR="red"]"I allow for you super guru's to be able to tell a decibel's difference and all that. "[/COLOR]

We are not super guru's, (at least I'm not). We merely are musicians who have an ear for what sounds good and what doesn't. You are of course entitled to your opinions, but again I suggest you apparently lack the experience to understand the musical subtleties of good instruments over poor ones.

Professional and no so professional drummers have an idea of the sound they are looking for. Sometimes they may try out 50 cymbals before they select the one they want. You make it seem like any cymbal will do. As a jazz player with a son who is a professional jazz drummer, I can absolutely assure you that the choice of cymbals is critical to getting the sound we're trying to create.

[COLOR="Red"]"I didn't mean to offend you guy's who collect these things and all that. "[/COLOR]

We're not thin skinned here and not that sensitive. And, although some members here are collectors, I am not. My son and I (mostly my son) play almost every cymbal we own on a regular basis. Of course some get a lot more use then others.

I do wonder however why you are a member of a specialty musical instrument site if you truly believe that the sound of better vintage gear is mostly irrelevant to the end result.

Like the eye of the tiger,...a musician needs the ear of dog !!

I got a 20" Sabian B8,...when I slide the stick back and forth it goes "..sue sue sue sue sue...ect."

My buddy has a 20" A Zildgian,..when I do the same,...it goes "s s s s s s s s..."

When I hit the edge of mine and tele cast it,..I can go out and have a ciggarett and come back and it will still be going !!

My buddy`s wont last long enough get outside !! It wil fade evenly out and not be heard over my next set of beats !! I have to grab mine to shut it up !!

I have an A zildgian crash and it lasts long enough to say " crash " then fades out so you can`t hear it over your continued playing. If you have to grab your cymbal to quiet it so it don`t continue into your playing,...it sucks !!

There`s a huge difference in cymbal quality and like Ludwigdude keeps reminding us,...you pay what the market dictates cuz people will out buy you for them !!

What`s outta hand is the people who are still trying to clean them up so they will stay that way. That used to be me,...but now I know as long as there is Oxygen in the air,...they will oxidize !!

The days of hand hammering and man operated latheing are over and that`s where the vintage comes into play and the dollar matters !!

........just my two !!

It`s like a guitar player who makes too much noise with their fingers,..or a bass player with a pick !!

I know a guy in downtown Boston who plays the meanest white bucket,..a few pans and some silverware,....I love to listen to this guy,...no-one like him anywhere around,....But that`s talent,...not quality,...one must know the differences !!

People who have 40 cymbals and play them when needed are useually good drum players too.

People who have 40 cymbals hanging over their kit, use them to drown their crap drumming !!

Now there`s people on this site who will say the same about snare drums,...cuz it`s true,...like cymbals,..they come in crap and quality !!

I should know,..I`m still play`n the same no name snare I found in the trash 20 something years ago,...

I want that yellowed Camco LA era snare SOOOOOOOO BAD !! (the one in the snare forum)