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My Nemisis.....recording with a "click" Last viewed: 8 seconds ago

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I wish I had put it as elegantly as Tnsquint. Good advice!

In the studio, when a click is not provided I use Ableton Live. I can throw anything at it: clicks, loops, objects (hits), midi, whatever and stretch these any way I want very quickly. I keep a template session handy too. For future reference, I write down the Bpms, so that I don't have to open a session for each tune and so I can provide the info to whoever will be editing/mixing.

1964 Ludwig Champagne Super Classic
1970 Ludwig Blue Oyster Super Classic
1977 Rogers Big R Londoner 5 ebony
1972/1978 Rogers Powertone/Big R mix ebony
60's Ludwig Supersensitive
Pearl B4514 COB snare ( the SC snare)
Pearl Firecracker
PJL WMP maple snare
Odds & Sods

Sabians, Paistes, Zildjians, Zyns, UFIPs, MIJs etc
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Posted on 11 years ago
#11
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It does take some getting used to, but playing with a click should 'feel' like playing with another musician. You're not playing to it, but with it.

It forces you to listen to yourself and find the pocket of a given tempo. One thing I like to do is have the singer/songwriter play a scratch acoustic guitar/vocal to establish how they're feeling it so you have something to go off of, feel and arrangement-wise.

All told, music should have some push and pull, tension and release, and people complain that this is near impossible with a click. Learning to play on top, behind, and in the middle of the beat, and being able to switch gears within a song, takes a lot of practice, experience and critical listening. It's fun, challenging, and makes you an all around better player.

Aaron

Posted on 11 years ago
#12
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Well said Fish.

One thing I would like to add to the discussion of learning to play with a click. Years ago (mid 80's) I was playing on an album session. We had a track that was a really strong shuffle. We listened to the scratch track, did a rehearsal run through and then recorded it. First take, awesome. Everyone was stoked so we decided to go out to dinner to celebrate, plus it was dinner time anyway. We came back and listened to the rhythm track and it was still strong. The singer/songwriter/producer had a bit of a frown on his face. He decided the song was just ever so slightly fast and wanted to track it again slower. I don't recall how much slower now but probably somewhere between 2-4 bpm. I spent hours trying to recreate that track as I could not seem to ease it back in the pocket anymore. In my head and heart it just felt like it was supposed to be a touch faster. The end result was a miserable experience for all involved and I remember that like it was yesterday.

The point being that it is a good idea to prcatice any particular feel with a click for a great deal of time until it feels rock solid and you are really comfortable with it. Then, adjust the speed just a touch and start over. I learned my lesson that day and practiced like this for quite some time afterwards. Personnialy I found speeding up a track was not too difficult, but slowing it down, even a little was problematic. It has a lot to do with adreneline and is probably related to the phenomena where you generally are playing faster than you think if you go about recording yourself, which, by the way, is another reason a click is a good idea.

tnsquint
Very proud owner of a new Blaemire Snare 6.5 x 14 made by Jerry Jenkins "Drumjinx"
Posted on 11 years ago
#13
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Excellent advice......somewhat of a revelation....not because it is the way in my opinion, but because it is a tool that does make you a better drummer and it is an aspect of playing that a drummer needs in his pocket. I will attempt to practice with one. It was my ultimate demise with my last band, which was a shame because it was a good situation and I was going to record an album until I encountered my "nemesis".......by the way, I'm surprised that more guys are not sharing more info on classic rock drummers and their experiences with this....although I guess our Nashville brother TNSQUINT stated that click tracks didn't even exist back then.

Posted on 11 years ago
#14
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I did a bit more digging on the origins of the click track, which has apparently been used since the 30's In the film industry, not so much for time keeping as for synchronizing music to image more easily.

"Lou Fleischer did it first, no? The "click" and the little pin prick holes on the film where the musicians could follow the sync. The click was only heard in the cans of Lou (the conductor). The pin pricks on the screen "bounced" like the famous Fleischer Bouncing Ball so the musicians could anticipate the beats. This was 1932..."

(http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/origin-of-the-click-track.157756/)

although Wiki credits Carl Stalling (Wassup doc?)

Concerning Classic Rock, here is a response to a thread I found over at gearsluts:

One of the best click tracks of all time = Money, by Pink Floyd

"I believe it was Mr. Waters, with maybe some help from Alan Parsons. They used 7 different sounds, all related to money (we all know these sounds, right?), cut each sound to tape. Spliced each sound, back to back, and using a broom handle to keep it taught, they ran it through a tape machine over and over."

Apparently you can here a click bleed through the vocals of the Monkees "Daydream Believer" too.

It also seems that Bob Ezrin put an SM-57 in a box and tapped on it for a click track on the sessions of Kiss Destroyer.

Sly and the Family stone used an early drum machine on "Family Affair"

I also read that Keith Moon was doing this as early as 1971, but I have found nothing to back that, so Who knows.....

1964 Ludwig Champagne Super Classic
1970 Ludwig Blue Oyster Super Classic
1977 Rogers Big R Londoner 5 ebony
1972/1978 Rogers Powertone/Big R mix ebony
60's Ludwig Supersensitive
Pearl B4514 COB snare ( the SC snare)
Pearl Firecracker
PJL WMP maple snare
Odds & Sods

Sabians, Paistes, Zildjians, Zyns, UFIPs, MIJs etc
Item may be subject to change!
Posted on 11 years ago
#15
Posts: 1465 Threads: 87
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Tried to use a metronome to time out some classic rock songs to practice my timing using the metronome later. Found many of them had 1-2 beat shift over the course of the song. Definitely many of them were not using any click type track.

Have not done much click time practice as described here, but will be putting it on my list of things to change for shed time.

Posted on 11 years ago
#16
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funkypoodle - Man, that was an excellent post!

I learn something new every day here...

John

Too many great drums to list here!

http://www.walbergandauge.com/VintageVenue.htm
Posted on 11 years ago
#17
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From Purdie Shuffle

funkypoodle - Man, that was an excellent post!I learn something new every day here...John

Thanks John! We both learned something. I just dug around out of curiosity.

There was some stuff on vintage Seth Thomas metronomes I found too, but I didn't want to stray too far from he OP's last question (and because I often rant to no end).;)

1964 Ludwig Champagne Super Classic
1970 Ludwig Blue Oyster Super Classic
1977 Rogers Big R Londoner 5 ebony
1972/1978 Rogers Powertone/Big R mix ebony
60's Ludwig Supersensitive
Pearl B4514 COB snare ( the SC snare)
Pearl Firecracker
PJL WMP maple snare
Odds & Sods

Sabians, Paistes, Zildjians, Zyns, UFIPs, MIJs etc
Item may be subject to change!
Posted on 11 years ago
#18
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Re: click-tracks & metronomes...

The number one thing/job requirement every drummer -has to- learn is, how to keep good time! Every other musician in the band depends on you to keep solid time for them, or it's, 'train-wreck here we come.'

If you're not used to playing with a click track or a metronome, maybe it's time to learn. Somebody said earlier on that when you're 'in the pocket' the click track disappears... and it's true! The better able you are to keep consistent time for the other musicians, (no slowing up, or speeding up during a number,) the tighter the band is going to sound. All that is on you, as a drummer. I'm glad the subject came up because not enough is said about how important it is for a drummer to be able to keep good time. It's always about licks & tricks & fancy fills. None of that matters, I don't care if you can play like a machine gun, if you can't keep good basic time. Charlie Watts is just one example of a drummer who is famous... for keeping good time!

Check the manual... it's in the job description! :p

John

Too many great drums to list here!

http://www.walbergandauge.com/VintageVenue.htm
Posted on 11 years ago
#19
Posts: 1525 Threads: 127
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In the eighties in Muscle Shoals and Nashville a lot of drummers used a Seiko metronome that would give you a flashing light for the tempo. 3 greens and a red for 1 if you were in 4/4 time. I still have mine. I also use a click track in my studio. I will record songs using programmed drum beats and then rerecord real live drums.

Using off beats on tambourine or cowbell does help. Another thing that is very helpful when recording to a click track is it helps out the singers and engineers.

You can get a perfect chorus of a song with all the harmonies then copy and paste them on all the choruses, etc. Right on the beat. So you can see how it is beneficial in all aspects with different instruments, many things.

Posted on 11 years ago
#20
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