hmmmmm..... and it seems no answers.

My '71 Ludwig Standard snare has the 3/4" knob, so I guess that's typical for that age range.

Since I keep seeing these so-called "vintage" tone controls selling for upwards of $30+, mostly for 1" knobs with nylon washers, looking flawlessly new and no different than those on the market today in 2009, I can't see the point of paying that much more for a muff whose age is so ambiguous; regardless of what the eBoy's description says.

With all the "parting out" that goes on, I wonder how anyone can honestly keep track of what comes from where and from what year.:2Cents:ViolinCryBabyToilet:confused:

Most of the "NOS" Ludwig stuff you see on ebay lately is not NOS but New Stock. There is a difference. NOS is New OLD Stock, meaning actual vintage parts. If its in a red labeled package with barcodes it is NEW Ludwig, not NOS.....meaning it is currently available stock (most people don't realize this and the usual unscupulous ebay seller lists it as NOS and the unknowledgable buyer takes their word for it paying inflated prices for something that they could get at a Ludwig dealer for much less). One more point, 99% of the current Ludwig replacement parts are virtually identical to the vintage stuff and are usually acceptable as replacements. In the case of lugs, make sure you order the "marching" versions for your vintage drums as they are still fitted with springs inside rather than the plastic retainers. BTW, the currently available internal muffler is identical to the originals in your vintage Standard drums. Been the same muffler since 1968........you migh want to check 2112online.com for parts instead of ebay.....usually much cheaper. Also, the Ludwig website has a parts catalog pdf file available for part numbers.

FYI, as a sidenote, most of the "NOS" Gretsch stuff listed on ebay is also New CURRENT Stock available from Gretsch. When you don't change a lot of your hardware for decades, there is a tendancy to be able to still get it new from the manufacturer's dealer network.....DOH

Hey Ludwig-dude,

Yes, this abuse of new parts being sold as vintage really peeves meSoap Box

Especially since so many parts haven't changed and are indiscernible as old or new. What a rip-off!!! Hence my quest to recognize the finer points (and history) of Ludwig tone controls. Not only do I not want to be scammed, but I don't wish to see fellow sincere vintage drum lovers scammed either. However you slice it, it's "Buyer Beware"

I've been to 2112 online (and many others), and they do have some great prices. However, I've noticed an increase in some prices for Ludwig parts just recently. I don't know why this is - economy, scarcity, or even the growth of the vintage market itself upping the demand for replacement parts.

Great to hear that so many parts are +/- the same. I do have the pdf. catalog of current Ludwig parts, and I'm constantly cross-referencing with that as I shop. It's a great resource. Although, I do wish I could find a 1970s parts catalog for the Standard series - not a drum catalog; I've seen plenty of those - just '68 - '74 parts.

Regarding the mufflers, my big question is in wondering when 3/4" knobs ended in lieu if the current and long standing 1" knob available today. I've read that the baseball bat ended in '68, and the rotary knob started. - I'm *guessing* that the 3/4" knob was the first generation from '68 until ??? - - I've also read that Ludwig used the smaller knobs much earlier, although the one I saw on an old marching snare pic was different and more similar to my 1960s Slingerland muffler knobs.

Thanks for all the helpful info - it's handy in building my personal data base of Ludwig tone control fine points.

Actually iirc the 3/4" knobs were prior to the baseball bat mufflers, then the changeover to the 1" knobs was in 68. As far as parts catalogs for the standard series, can't say I've run across one before. If you are looking for dimensions, I do have a parts catalog from 1988 or so and it has the Rocker II lugs in it. From what I understand, Ludwig may still have some of these lugs in stock and ready to ship. A good Ludwig dealer can find out for you.....if you need part numbers or a scan page of the lugs I think I can help you there, but for the standard mounts and such, that stuff is long gone and I don't have any catalogs or part numbers there......

Ahhhh, so that's the '68 transition. Kinda had me wondering since my Standard '71 snare has a tone control with the small knob. I suppose my snare could be earlier by a shade. The serial # info, plus what I know of the original owner's history led me to the '71 guesstimate. I understand that those serials are not exact.

As for parts, I'm not really searching for much - a tone control for a Standard tom - large or small knob - it came without the knob, shaft and cylindrical bolt that fits the notch in the band spring. - Perhaps a 14" snare-side rim, at some point - no rush there, and also at some point, a 13" piccolo snare side rim for a retro build I'm doing. - I was tracking for a P-84 piccolo strainer - pretty rare, but opted for a new P-80 for a great price. - - Oy! Also a small knob tone control for the piccolo project..... otherwise, that's it - Huh... more than I thought.

I don't need any lugs - I actually have 6 extra Standard toms of real '68 -'71 vintage.

One thing I have been trying to find out about are Ludwig tension rods - the part number & size specs used for '68 - '72 Standard 13" toms and/or 14" & 13" snare. - - Part of why I wish I had a vintage parts pdf. to compare.

Here's a little image of my current parts catalog tension rods - I wonder how they compare to the rods used in 1970.