There is very little detailed information about "Ludwig" cymbals by Tosco in "The Cymbal Book". Tosco seems to have started in 1974 & made cymbal until 1986, w/ no mention of the exact years, or series made for Ludwig. There is also no mention (that I can find) of Tosco cymbals in the several books on Ludwig history, even though each volume has a section on cymbals . ( Tosco made B20 cymbals, some hand hammered, & some machine hammered, they also made B8 cymbals).

Tosco was never affiliated with UFIP. Tosco was always just Tosco.

Thanks for the info guys. I was just curious to know more of the story about my new friend.

If you had to guess, would you say this is a 70's cymbal? I'm not 100% sure, but I think Ludwig went away from the script logo in favor of the logo on the cymbal at about the same time of the introduction of the blue/olive badge, which to my recollection was early 70's, so the cymbal can't be older than that.

Does anyone have any information about Tosco itself? I have had a few "Pasha" cymbals in the past that were Italian made. Did Tosco take over the Pasha line, or were they seperate entities too?

Tosco was a partnership between two individuals associated with UFIP ; a grandson of one of the 5 original partners in UFIP, Buiani and the former financial head of UFIP, Spadacini.

They made cymbals for about 12 years , branding for Ludwig,Sonor and Gretsch ,at least. It does seem that some of the stencil brands associated with UFIP were for a while made at Tosco.Some of the cymbals were first rate, cast and rolled and hand hammered. I own a Sonor Tosco ,16" hand hammered crash and it would be hard to find a better cymbal ,in it's style. It resembles a Paiste 602. As the years progressed, Sabian bought the company and produced some really great, cast cymbals there but the production shifted to utilitarian stuff and the factory closed in 1986. There are Tosco cymbals around, marked,made in Canada and these seem identical to other contemporary cymbals marked Sabian----and there are cymbals marked Sabian B-20 made in Italy.

The cymbal business in Italy was pretty incestuous. Tosco in Italy was primarily under control of the Tronci Bros. There were other cymbal families as well, e.g. Zanchi (Zanki) et al. They later combined to form a united company, better know as UFIP. Tosco adapted the bell-making process of "Rotocasting" to cymbals, thus creating a totally unique form of cymbalmaking, along with it's own sonic properties.

Private branding went on a lot in Italy. Yes, Tosco did Ludwig, as well as Rogers. Other Italian brands included: Kashian (for Slingerland), Pasha, Zenjian, Ajaha (for Gretsch) et al.

Later on, Tosco was bought by Sabian. They were sold as Sabian B20 cymbals at first, then discontinued. About a decade ago or so, Sabian began producing Tosco in the Canadian factory as a sort of budget line, but they were not "budget" enough to sway customers, so they were discontinued. These almost seem to be a precursor to Sabian's successful XS20 series.

I have a very sizeable collection of Tosco cymbals, including a set of "MM Linea" series of hand-hammered cymbals that i bought as a closeout about 25 years ago that even the experts seem to know nothing about. Apparently, they are rare. I own MOSTLY Italian cymbals, but some Canadian as well. I went on an eBay binge with these when they cost peanuts, and now, you can't even find them. Suffice to say that they were very high-quality cymbals, but they COULD be hit-and-miss. Rotocast cymbals also have their own sound, somewhere between the Turkish and Swiss sounds.

I thought that Pasha, Zenjian, & the other 'pretend' Turks were made by UFIP, rather than Tosco. But I guess not. Or maybe they each made them for a while. Like JR says, Italian cymbal-makers were an incestuous lot........marko

According to "The Cymbal Book", Tosco was founded & run by Giovanni Spadacini & Mr. Buiani, ( not the Tronci Bros). Tosco never used the rotocasting process. And made Cymbals for Ludwig & Gretsch (Ajaha). Kashian, Zenjian & Pasha(Rogers) were made by UFIP.

If there are facts to the contrary, you'll have to take them up w/ Hugo Pinksterboer, (in a battle of the reference material).

Here is the rarely seen Ufip Rosetta Stone.....a truly remarkable document.

In here you'll find most of the stencil brands ever made by UFIP. Included here are: Kashian, Pasha, Ajaha, Zanki, and a whole host of others:

[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/kzildjianhistorical/ufipstencil%203.jpg[/img]

Zenjian was also made by UFIP but is not shown here.

Ah, the UFiP Rosetta Stone. Thanks for the reminder Bill.

Original photo thanks to Ronn Dunnett on his factory tour of UFiP in 2008. URL to original:

http://www.dunnett.com/messe2008/rome7.html

but you have to scroll horizontally a l-o-n-g w-a-y. It's worth it because after that Luigi shows him letters and a purchase order from some "vintage drum" people you may have heard of: Gretsch, WFL, and Avedis Zildjian.