Because of modern signal processing, you'll have much more success duplicating Charlie's bass drum sound on a recording than you will trying to pull a recorded drum tone out of a 'live' bass drum. Do you want the bass to sound that way to you, or to the audience/listener? Drums sound way different out front than they do from the drivers seat. If you succeed in getting 'that sound' for the listeners, then it won't sound that way to you. If you get that sound for yourself, it's going to sound different out front.

There is so much electronic signal processing junk available, that it shouldn't be terribly hard to reproduce Charlie's sound on a recording with the help of an engineer who knows what he's doing. Reproducing that sound 'Live' is a whole other animal. Using the same bass drum Charlie used would be a good start. Probably the Gretsch!

John

+ on Purdie's comments about the current signal processing capabilities. It wasn't so dominant when Honky Tonk Women was recorded, so the drum itself carried the tune, moreso, so to speak.

Gretsch along with Trixon were the two companies that favoured the Pratt type muffler. Hardly a Trixon bass drum was sold without one. Watts used Gretsch drums from way back but curiously there is at least one picture of him playing Trixon onstage. Perhaps, that indescribable controlled punch , that a well adjusted Pratt muffler brings to a bass drum, is partially responsible for his choices. If you've never played one with one of these , it is a joy to behold. They (especially the Gretsch ones), always grab top dollar on ebay. Although most of them out there are on Trixon drums, you hardly ever see them for sale. They seem to stay put. There are a few on Sonor drums as well. AND----it's not the same thing as putting a fixed strap across the batter head, although that is some help.

Do you want the bass to sound that way to you, or to the audience/listener?

I want it to sound like that for both!!! ..I know, I know.. it's not possible.

Currently I play an early 70s Ludwig, 3-ply maple set... I absolutely love it!! I'm using a Evans EMAD on the batter, a Remo coated emperor on the reso side, with a Evans velcro pillow on the inside.. just barely touching both heads. I get a good deep sound out of it.

Thanks for the replies! Guitar Dude Man

Charlie played Ludwigs for a stretch too...Sky Blue Pearl I recalll

While it is true that signal processing was a fledgling art at the time that was recorded and had little impact on the sound, you still cannot discount the natural proximity effect of microphone placement and some simple desk eq.

I like the EMAD heads and have had good success with them when I have used them. The tone of the drum becomes a bit deeper and the punch has been increased while the attack seems a little more wet. I would imagine Charlie was using coated heads back then but replicating his set-up may not produce the sound you want.

It is also true that the kick will sound different to you from a player's position than it will out front and there is no way around that except for monitoring. When you include monitors, then the same sound you are sending the audience comes back to you.

George Lawrence has a Radio King kick drum that he slapped a PS3 coated batter head with whatever reso head was on it and it sounded every bit as good as Charlie's kick. It was outstanding with a ton of low end and oomph abd really impressive. I immediately tried PS3 coated heads on a 20-22-24 Slingerland kicks (from 1962 to the late 70's), a 22" Ludwig B/O kick and a 20" Premier and did not like it on any of them. It depends on the drum and the space in which you are listening to it.

I don't have a copy of Honky Tonk Women to assess, but I recall thinking that the sustain of the note on "one" is very different than the "and of 3" and the "and of 4" and wondered why that is. Is it possible that Charlie played out of the kick on the down beat and into the drum on the two off beats? If so, I am very impressed with that bit of musicality and technique. Perhaps I don't recall this correctly though.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6M77oHD110[/ame]

Everybody sing!!!

There was some talk awhile back about Bernard Purdie overdubbing drums on Beatle and Stones records. I haven't listened to this recording in a long time. Listening now, it doesn't sound like Charlie! Watts always dropped a beat on the hi-hats when playing straight-up 4/4 grooves. On this record he's hitting -all- the 8th's on the hats! It just made me wonder is all. I wouldn't be surprised if they did bring in a session drummer from time to time to punch something up or to clean something up. Listening this time, it just doesn't 'sound like' Charlie Watts to me on this one. Purdie? Who knows?!

What ever became of that whole 'overdubbed drums' controversy as it relates to the Stones? Where does it stand today? Has anyone ever produced any evidence either way, fer' or agin'?

John

John that's interesting about Purdie and the Stones. I have heard the Beatles story/claims but never about the Stones. I know what you mean about the dropped hi hat beats Charlie is famous for. Strange indeed.........

One thing that Ive noticed about the studio recording of the song is that the tempo speeds up during the course of the song. I havent heard anything about Charlie not being the drummer on this... but I know what ya mean John. He normally lays off the hihat on the 2&4, gives him his uniqueness! Keef mentioned in his book Life, that he loves charlie's playing and I believe mentioned this "technique" of charlie's.