all you guys who are into vintage cymbals & their history should check out The Cymbal Book by Hugo Pinksterboer published by Hal Leonard Corp. back in 92' (I don't know if its been updated, or for that matter is still in print, if its out of print you can find it on Alibris website) Its a great book(212 pages), and will ans. any ques. you have about any make, model, brand of cymbal you come accross.