Weights are very important when selling K's....

Around 20% of all K's get two (1/8") micro cracks around the bell for some reason...so check that out carefully.....

Are you buying or selling? On eBay or off? Weights? What country are they in?

I haven't yet recorded lots of sales of Old Stamp hats because they are relatively rare compared to New or Intermediate stamps. The current expected median price on eBay for 14" hats of all eras is $545 ± $100 (n=28) and that expected range covers about 80% of the sales. One would expect old stamps to come in above the median if they are in good condition.

This is for the USA eBay market and in the Czech Republic prices will be different. I don't know the adjustment for that.

I presume these are the sort of cracks you mean (although mine has more than just two -- alas):

[img]http://black.net.nz/cym2014/kzil18-hole.jpg[/img]

I believe they are commonly called mounting hole cracks or bell hole cracks, and nicknamed "spiders".

As distinct from cracks along the tonal grooves which happened to go "around the bell" because they are close to the base of the bell. This isn't the perfect example of tonal groove cracks going "around the bell" because it is further out towards the edge (and has been repaired), but it was to hand:

[img]http://black.net.nz/cym2014/tonal-groove-crack.jpg[/img]

I always try to illustrate these things, especially for international members whose first language may not be English.

How did you estimate that 20%, and is it of all Istanbul made Ks, or Old Stamps particularly? For hats or for all diameters? Curious.

In the case of Old Stamps they tend to have the smaller mounting hole (less than 1/2") and this is one of the obvious sources of bell hole cracks if they are used on modern stands.

thinner = higher price most of the time.

I'm not actually picking up that pattern in hi hats. That could just be because my sample size for hats isn't large enough yet. Rides and crashes (or more correctly singleton 16" cymbals and larger since we seldom know "model") Yes: thin is in. Hats...not sure yet based on the recorded evidence.

Others who have reliable evidence would be most welcome to contribute to the common good by coming forward and posting it in this thread.

Zen,how I know this is..

I have had around 125 Turk K's go through my hands over the years,and I noticed a pattern..

Seemed like 20% or more had the spider cracks at the bell of which you speak...I used to say 30%.....

Most were on larger cymbals....18"-22"..maybe not hats so much...

So..first thing I would ask if buying K's..."Any cracks at the bellhole"?....

Blair

Thanks Blair. That's a lot of Ks which have passed through your hands! I've only managed to snag one, and still have it. That's what comes of living in Middle Earth at the end of the supply line.

Over 125 is a good sample size for something like 20% to be estimated reasonably well (as in 20% ± 7% for the 95% confidence limit).

I'm particularly interested because I've got 166 cymbals recorded in my sample now and the spider crack rate is running at 15%. Of course, there are other problems recorded in the sample like keyhole. Your estimate provides a cross check on my sample, and they are "close enough" for comfort. I believe I may have failed to properly identify and record spiders in the earlier data sweeps I did (back in 2013) but this gives me a bit more confidence. Now I've learned to be more accurate in my recording of condition.

why so many spider cracks?

Too many spiders about? :)

Do you mean on mine as pictured above?

I don't know how it got all those because they were there before I bought it, and were there before the previous owner bought it. It is an 18" and weighs a svelte 1290g, so I expect it was used as a crash by somebody who clamped it down too tightly and then whacked it trying to get high volume out of it.

Or why is the proportion of cymbals with spider cracks 20%?

There is

[list]the small hole theory

[*]the clamped down too tightly on the stand theory

[*]in the 1950s Turkey didn't have the sharpest newest drill bits so when they

used an old drill bit for drilling the mounting hole the, cymbal got a little bit

too hot (over 150 degrees C) and the edges of the mounting hole weakened by loss

of tempering.

[/list]

Note that these three can work together. There are probably a few more theories as well. But I haven't heard of any experimental work being done to test any theories out. Same with the causes of keyholing. More theories than experiments which have been conducted.