I wonder if anyone has figured out how to get ripples on a B20 cymbal. I have a sabian B8 bottom and was able to put nice ripples on with a claw hammer. I have a nice formula 602 top hat and wanted to have B20 on the bottom too. I got an AAX bottom and as soon as I tried to bend the ripple it cracked. I cut a small V with my angle grinder to get rid of the crack and put three more V's so that is symmetrical and won't trap air. It sounds pretty good, but its not same as having the ripples. I am bidding on a 602 bottom right now but am not sure what to do if I get it. Would heating it with a tourch first allow it bend? I tried to repair a crack once with a Map gas torch and a copper rod. I had some sucess, but I found out that this torch will melt the whole cymbal if it applied directly. Would a propane torch be any help? Any advice greatly appreciated.
getting sound edge ripples on B20 bottom hihat
Welcome to VDF Wayne.
You need to be careful with heat on B20 cymbals. If they get very hot for too long you can lose some of the tempering which will then make that area more prone to cracks later on. According to a materials scientist colleague, you can have problems with loss of tempering in B20 at anything above 100 degrees C (212 degrees F). Matt Nolan (an independent cymbalsmith who forges cymbals himself) says he's had cymbals fail even after exposure to 80 degrees C (176 degrees F). Gas torches are a no go zone in terms of their temperature.
Matt Bettis (another independent cymbal maker) says putting the ripples into Sound Edge hats is very tricky. He did a pair as an experiment and swore off ever doing it again.
Also, old B20 (more than 10 years) gets more brittle and this means you are unlikely to succeed without cracking. You do have the option of doing the entire tempering/annealing process over again, but that's an order of magnitude more complex to learn to do properly.
Disclaimer: I'm not a cymbalsmith myself, and I don't hammer cymbals. But I know most of the independent cymbalsmiths and have learned a bit from discussions with them.
Thanks for the response. I guess the lack of other reponses means you are correct that there may not be a practicle way to acheive this. I wonder if any of the pre-made sound edge style cymbals are B20 or are they all B8?
Meinl do a B20 with a soundwave bottom hat
Yes Meinl do. And obviously Paiste (602). And Zildjian (masersound). Also UFiP (wave hats):
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UpjMyNhXYI"]UFIP Class Wave Hi Hat Cymbals 14" - YouTube[/ame]
There may be other manufacturers as well. But the difference is that they are factories with already skilled workers and the specialized equipment, not somebody with a used 602 hat, a gas torch, and a claw hammer. And they can remelt any broken ones and recast them so cracking a cymbal isn't a total loss.
The issue to be decided is how many you are willing to crack while you are learning, versus the cost of buying an existing one which already has the ripples. I'm all for experimentation, but perhaps on modern B20 not older than just a few years. And you may succeed the first time!
One reason for showing the UFiP example is that the video shows that you don't need lots of steep sided or small ripples to achieve the result. If you want to experiment at home you might go for just a few subtle ones. Also the cutting of notches (as you did to recover from a crack) is another way to deal with the airlock issue. Zildjian used to make a pair of hats with notches in one of the older lines (not the Avedis line as far as I can remember). Maybe Impulse? Amir? Scimitar? Don't remember.
another option maybe to drill 4 holes in the bottom cymbal just like the Zildjian quick beats
[IMG]http://www.ebay.com/itm/Paiste-Formula-602-14-Sound-Edge-hi-hat-cymbals-excellent-shape-and-sound-/121725129303?hash=item1c57621257[/IMG]
I am looking at a sound formula 602 and the ripples look almost exactly like the ones I did with a claw hammer. Maybe the AAX was too old or too thick. It cracked before I could get any bend in it at all. it would be interesting to know how Paiste and others get this effect on B20 cymbals. Thanks all for you responses.
Disregard this and look at new post. Sorry for dup, but it became new issue.
Thank you all again for your thoughtful responses. The notches (and likely the holes) just don't have same sound. The ripples seem to give it a more open sound for lack of a better term. The AAX only cost 50 with shipping and I am still using it right now. I'll probably switch it out with the b8 a few times to see which one I like better, but I would still like to get a b20 soundedge some day. I have been on a real mission to upgrade my cymbals, below. I am primarily a guitar player, but I always wanted to play drums so I bought a new Tama kit from my local music store 4 or 5 years ago. It came with all brass Meinl HCS that were really bad. I am pretty happy with my set up now and am just fine tuning. The giant beat may be a bit redundant as the 602 seems better. Any comments about the overall set up greatly appreciated. I still consider myself to be a newbe on drums.
20” Paiste Rude 2002 ride - B8
18” Paiste formula 602 crash – B20
18” Paiste Giant Beat crash – B8 2002 alloy
17” Paiste Alpha Rock crash - B8
16” Paiste signature full heavy crash (cut down from an 18” by Saluda)- signature alloy
14” Paiste formula 602 Hi Hat top – B20
14” Sabian AAX Hi Hat bottom B20 (also Sabian B8 with ripples)
12” Saluda Decadence – B20
10” Paiste signature splash – Signature alloy
10” Zildjian Edge splash – B20
8” Paiste signature splash - Signature alloy
8” no name china cymbal. I drilled holes drilled in it to make it super trashy
7” Sabian stage ice bell
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