[ame]http://www.ebay.com/itm/Zildjian-18-K-Istanbul-Ride-Crash-Cymbal-Made-in-Turkey-VINTAGE-/171345381748?pt=Vintgae_Drums_Percussion&hash=item27e4fb0974[/ame]
The stamp is soooo fake. Look at the super thick crescent without a star, for starters. The stamp doesn't even look stamped. On top of that the seller is asking $1300 for this 18" cymbal! Even if it were real, it's way way over priced.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Zildjian-18-K-Istanbul-Ride-Crash-Cymbal-Made-in-Turkey-VINTAGE-/171345381748?pt=Vintgae_Drums_Percussion&hash=item27e4fb0974The stamp is soooo fake. Look at the super thick crescent without a star, for starters. The stamp doesn't even look stamped. On top of that the seller is asking $1300 for this 18" cymbal! Even if it were real, it's way way over priced.
...not sure about that...OS IVa?
http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71409&stc=1&d=1401776895
I can't see outright it is a fake either. Maybe we need education with just what gives it away Mark.
On the other hand, it is indeed unlikely to sell at that price. And I don't get this
Two hairline cracks the bell that were drilled out.
Is he talking about two hairline cracks out from the mounting hole and the ends were drilled? I can't make out the cracks in the photo, only the two holes from drilling. And the hole positions seem an awfully long way out for anything but a very serious crack from the mounting hole. Is it possible it is actually a crack along the lathing which runs between those two holes? A zero feedback guy and his command of the language isn't filling me with confidence. His other cymbal auction is for a 20" symbol
[ame]http://www.ebay.com/itm/171345379649[/ame]
Perhaps these photos are "borrowed" from other auctions and he is a scammer? Anybody recognize the cymbal photos from any recent auctions?
He also has an AKG microphone for sale. Item 171345382182.
yes, that price is utopian wishful thinking
...not sure about that...OS IVa?http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71409&stc=1&d=1401776895
Your photo shows a star over the crescent. For the one for sale, I could see no hint of a star on an otherwise clean and fairly well impressed stamp. Perhaps I missed it. Since the crescent is so thick, If I did miss the star, I agree its most likely a IVa. I did not know, however, that the IVa's star was inverted like that of a new stamp, as shown in your photo. The one picture of a IVa I have from years ago has a mostly obscured star, but it seems to be pointed in the opposite direction.
Here is my OS IVa 18" and the star points down:
[img]http://black.net.nz/cym2014/kzil-4a.jpg[/img]
Comparing the two (mine and that one on eBay) I also noticed that on mine the "thickest" part of the moon (and also if you imagine a line between the horns of the moon and then drop a perpendicular) is above the T of TURKEY, but on the eBay one the moon is rotated to the left a bit so the "thickest" part is further towards a place between the N of In and the T of TURKEY. Is this evidence that the different portions of the stamp could be aligned slightly differently (because the die was in several pieces)? Or was the stamp done at a different phase of the lunar cycle? :)
If nobody but me can see what I mean just in words, I'll annotate the pics. Just let me know.
Notice that the stamp on mine and the one on eBay also share a slightly thin D in MADE. A bit thin compared to the other letters. This is also true of the photo of an OS IVa in Bill's 2 page contribution to The Gretsch Drum Book. The star in that one is poorly formed and I can't tell if there is a point pointing down or not.
You may be able to find lots of other similarities and differences.
My interest in the eBay one as a possible fake is that it implies that the fakers have become much more clever. That one is no ZILOJIAN which looks New Old Stock and a New Stamp (or was it Intermediate?). If this is a fake they have gone for the more valuable Old Stamps, and this one even has cracks drilled. Interesting possibility if the fakers have become that much more sophisticated.
Here is my OS IVa 18" and the star points down:[img]http://black.net.nz/cym2014/kzil-4a.jpg[/img]Comparing the two (mine and that one on eBay) I also noticed that on mine the "thickest" part of the moon (and also if you imagine a line between the horns of the moon and then drop a perpendicular) is above the T of TURKEY, but on the eBay one the moon is rotated to the left a bit so the "thickest" part is further towards a place between the N of In and the T of TURKEY. Is this evidence that the different portions of the stamp could be aligned slightly differently (because the die was in several pieces)? Or was the stamp done at a different phase of the lunar cycle? :) If nobody but me can see what I mean just in words, I'll annotate the pics. Just let me know. Notice that the stamp on mine and the one on eBay also share a slightly thin D in MADE. A bit thin compared to the other letters. This is also true of the photo of an OS IVa in Bill's 2 page contribution to The Gretsch Drum Book. The star in that one is poorly formed and I can't tell if there is a point pointing down or not. You may be able to find lots of other similarities and differences. My interest in the eBay one as a possible fake is that it implies that the fakers have become much more clever. That one is no ZILOJIAN which looks New Old Stock and a New Stamp (or was it Intermediate?). If this is a fake they have gone for the more valuable Old Stamps, and this one even has cracks drilled. Interesting possibility if the fakers have become that much more sophisticated.
My concern with the eBay 18" is still the very clean and distinct crescent with hardly a hint of a star. There is a blemish when the star should be, but nothing more.
I'm no expert but it looks like the star (among other things in the stamp) were stamped separately. If this is the case perhaps the star stamp was forgot, misplaced or the likes?
Definitely real! Old Stamp Type 4a.
If someone went to all that trouble to fake the font, the spacing, even the wear in the arabic lettering, etc. so well, why on earth would they leave off the star? My hunch is that it's real.
