Obviously they want you to buy a junked snare or tom and get the lugs from there, then buy a vintage keller shell (3 ply with re-rings from mahogany like the Ludwig 3 ply kits old and current), and get wrap to match. Or buy the junked snare or tom and get Precision to do the rest for you including the matching wrap. Or maybe there is somebody on the board who would take it on and manage the entire project for you. It's not hard. You just have to bring all the ingredients together.

Keller's "vintage" shells are 6 ply, not 3... otherwise this would be a moot point. I've filled holes, re-drilled, wrapped... I know what's involved.

I am actually quite surprised that Keller doesn't offer a true 3-ply shell. I'm sure they'll make them, but the minimum order would be ridiculous unless I got a LOT of other folks on VDF to go in on a group order and get a bunch of 8"x10" shells for the purpose of adding a 10" tom to our vintage sets. I doubt the interest is there.

Granted, I've heard good things about those particular Keller shells, but then again I've heard good things about a number of other company's drums, none of which would sound the same.

Well...I can see their point to a degree. While they claim you can "custom order" the classic maple and legacy classic drums, you can only mix and match to a certain degree. They probably don't have the drill fixtures for the hole pattern to work correctly on a deep shell like that anymore. Also, they probably can't get the long tension rods required to do something like that in such a small quantity. They are a mass-producing manufacturer after all, not a true custom drum maker. Most of the custom endorser kits are done as one-offs by outsiders using Ludwig parts, have been for years. Maybe contacting one of them with your idea might get a new legacy classic the way you want it produced for you....but I'm sure it will cost you. DW also claims to be a "custom" drum maker as well......only to a certain degree though, just like Ludwig. Again, its a mass-produced thing.......economics and profits dictate it more than making one-offs for customers. Sorry, but that's just the way it is.

someone's not a happy camper! there's so much i won't say about that.

i understand your upset that they won't do what you request,but they don't offer clubdate anymore. too bad your not looking for a 12". i have a prototype legacy shell in champagne spkl.

and i don't know why you said people are moving to indie drum co's for custom stuff.though that was and may still be true, that scene is dying a slow mortifying death.i know,i used to work at a indie and have been laid off 3 yrs.

plus those guys order custom kits way beyond what a major co. would do.except for their artists.i've made some wacky stuff for some customers.

I would understand if it were a total custom job, but this should be pretty simple for someone who's competent with a hand drill.

Yeah, the rep said something about checking back late in the year, although the general impression my brother got was that it'd be a cheaper drum, not a Legacy shell. Where'd you get it?

I understand what you're saying, and agree to a point... Any idiot can order Keller shells and some lugs and be in business TODAY as a "custom drum builder". Not to say that you worked for someone that was small-time, but like any business, there will always be a few that rise above. Sorry to hear that the company you worked with wasn't able to keep you on board.

I don't really think I'm part of that small of a minority. I've talked to a lot of guys that wish they could just get one piece to add to a vintage set, or that the company that built their drums offered singles. My current gigging set was only available in those sizes as a pre-configured set. I can't just buy a 2nd bass drum, for example, without getting something from a totally different series, which would be made of totally different wood.

I *do* understand that they're set up for mass production, though... Still... like I said, I have other issues with the current Ludwig company, and have for some time. They are my favorite "name" in drums, but I honestly continue to be amazed that they're still in business.

Edit: and FWIW, I was totally willing to pay more for the custom work. In fact, I expected to.

[QUOTE]I *do* understand that they're set up for mass production, though... Still... like I said, I have other issues with the current Ludwig company, and have for some time. They are my favorite "name" in drums, but I honestly continue to be amazed that they're still in business.[QUOTE]

I'm not sure what your "issues" with the current Ludwig company are, but if it has to do with the import lines......its a must in this day and age for the domestic brands to survive, unfortunately. Our friends, the japanese, set that trend in the drum market years ago, and we let them do it! People shop for a price when they start playing drums. We Americans priced ourselves right out of that area of the market with domestic kits years ago due to rising labor costs. It, like everything else lately, was cheaper to outsource a lot of the lower line products than make it domestically. Now, as far as your earlier comment about the current Ludwig hardware being nothing more than rebadged/relabeled Gibraltar....yes that is true to a degree, but so is 2/3rds of the hardware out there made today. It's all made in Taiwaan or mainland China now by the same company with the individual company's spec logos, wingscrews, footboards, etc attached. It's a fact of life, so sorry but you'll have to deal with it. Even DW's hardware is made overseas now and the quality of the current stuff shows. We did that to ourselves too....you can thank the EPA about the regs they have on the chemicals (and disposal thereof) that are used in the chroming process. It's too cost prohibitive here to do it, so....overseas it goes where they have no EPA to regulate things (or care for the environment for that matter).

Personally, I think Ludwig is in a renaissance period right now, enjoying a resurgance of popularity, and they are coming out with stuff that drummers WANT, and for reasonable prices. Today's Ludwig import kits are manufactured well, whether you want to hear that or not, and they sound pretty good too.

So get off your high horse about them not being able to wield a hand drill to make you a drum that you want to match a long out of production ENTRY LEVEL vintage kit. They do a fine job at what they do and they are coming out with some neat stuff these days.

Ok...off the Soap Box

BTW...I have contacted them in the past about getting info on who supplied the black panther wrap....got no answers. So there's another thing vintage that they have no intention of ever re-releasing. I'm dealing, so I don't understand why you can't over a "club-date" drum that never was.....

I would agree that they're probably selling what many people are willing to buy...

I'm hardly on a "high horse". Settle down, LD...

Oops. I should have gone and rechecked. Although they are six ply you should check the overall thickness of the 6 plys compared to the old ludwig 3 plys. I think they are more similar in thickness (hence same sonic resonance) than you might think. Worth a check anyway.

So then why don't you do it? Find an old 10" 3 ply concert tom, fill the holes, redrill and put the hardware on you want.. if you know what's involved why not just do it yourself...

You can order single Keller shells if you know where to look, you certainly don't need a big order...

Part of the reason is that Keller is using thinner plies than what Ludwig was using 40 years ago. Technology and wood supplies are very different from what they were back then.

Have you checked out Gladstone shells? Bill Cardwell knows what he is doing and is making some great stuff. HERE

I'd make it for you, if you asked nicely... Kiss

As far as Ludwig Quality, I don't know what you are comparing as they have at least 4 or 5 lines right now. Anything coming out of Monroe are far better than the asian stuff you compare it to. Ripping on a company because they won't do what you want is immature... While you are entitled to your opinion, I rather doubt you've taken the time to really compare Ludwigs top lines to anything more that what sits in the local box mart...

Good luck in your search..