I am looking for a vintage Zildjian Avedis ride that is crashable. I know most A's can be be used as crashes or rides depending on taste but is there one that does both very well. I have read that the 21" Sweet ride is a great ride/crash but is there a vintage equal? I like bigger rides like 21", 22" or 24"
The type of music I play is Blues, Funk, Rock, Heavy Metal, and ballads.
Thanks:
Try a 22 New Orleans ride. Good definition and a nice crash. Because you play more driving beats, it might be a pretty good choice. Check out this for a sample.
http://mycymbal.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=34_17&products_id=2337
I have been using a 20" Zildjian K Custom Dark Ride as a crash. Didn't buy it for that but I fell in love with it as a crash. I was wondering if anybody else uses a ride for a crash?
[COLOR="DarkRed"]....there is that famous drum magazine interview with Tony Williams from about 20+ years ago.....where the interviewer asks "is that cymbal you use on XXXX a crash or a ride ?"
to which Tony replied:
"A cymbal is a cymbal".
I never put much weight into the label 'crash' or 'ride'.
IMHO a Sweet (which IS a good ride cymbal) doesn't make a great crash...too heavy and the decay is too slow. Particularly the latter aspect is where rides often fail as crashes....while the 'bite' on the initial strike may sound good.....the decay is just way too slow and it just stays in the air too long.
The thing about old A's are...given that they weren't named as models....it's hard to just offer advice on the right kind of one. Basically, a 'ride' cymbal of a medium weight or lighter (20" at under 2200g, 22" at under 2600g, etc) OR with a profile where the weight is up at the bell and bow and the edge shows wobble on the ride.....is gonna make a good crashable ride. So basically, if there's no soundfile for a vintage ride...you gotta go on a hunch.
McJ as usual hit it right, too: the contemporary Turkish handmades do a great job of both just because they are inherently full of overtones. So even though they may be heavy...they just have so much lushness to them that they sound nice as crashes. (I used to have an Isty Vezir crash cymbal which was just perfect....over time I forgot there was even the weight penned in under the bell and when I looked at it.....it was almost 1600g !!! From any of the big 3, a 1600g 16" cymbal would be no more useful than a hubcap, basically. But it worked on a Turkish handmade).
Bos, Istanbul, Masterwork and the like. Check out the soundfiles at cymbalsonly.com
Lucky has it right too...basically, any "Dark" ride is gonna be on the thinner side, so in a lotta contexts it will sound good as a crash.....
Another one which works really well if you don't wanna pay the top dollar for a new Turkish cymbal ...is...believe it or not....a Sabian El Sabor AA. I love this line. It has all of the aspects I noted above. Heavy in the center, thin at the edges. Also, it has a great unlathed big and heavy bell for Funk. On top of all of this, its edge is flanged a touch (not like a china, but sorta like the old Sabian Sound Control series)...which makes a great place to crash it, and also causes the decay after the crash to diminish medium-fast. It was marketed as a salsa cymbal for that very reason...you could smash it with a Timbale stick and it'd crash superbly.[/COLOR]
I LOVED my Sabian 20 El Sabor! I had forgotten about that one. It was the classic 60's feel and sound. Unbelievable response. The 18 was pretty good, too. I don't recall if I ever owned a 22 or not. Too many of the dang things fly through here. But, that 20 El Sabor was a seriously sweet cymbal. Man, totally forgot about that one. Thanks for poking the ole' gray matter, Jaye.
Try a 22 New Orleans ride. Good definition and a nice crash. Because you play more driving beats, it might be a pretty good choice. Check out this for a sample. http://mycymbal.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=34_17&products_id=2337
The cymbal (above) is a bit dark and dry for my liking but thanks for the advice.
Based on the sound file of the Sweet ride (below) I personally think it makes a nice crash sound. I want to use this as a primary ride and more of a secondary crash. Something that opens up pretty bright without much effort.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvExWDjX9pg[/ame]
The Zildjian 24" K light (below) looks like it has wobble near the end like Jaye mentioned. It sounds good too.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAgBAjFDJZI[/ame]
I was more after older Zildjians where the bell is large unlike the sweet ride where the bell seems smaller.
What do you guys think of this Zildjian crash/ride (below). The price seems a bit high but I am not sure and I have never played one.
Not sure about a crash that big but Gerry, the owner, is pretty much right on about his descriptions. I have bought cymbals from him with confidence. I think when he says that it will cut above a Marshall stack that that thing is going to be loud, way loud!
I have 3 "rides" which also work well as crashes. A 20" Zilco which I purchased from a forum member here. I use it all the time both live and recording. I'd call it a medium weight, not light and not heavy.
2nd one is my Dream Bliss (gen III) 22". Hand made, hand hammered and a very sweet cymbal. On the light side for a ride, but works well in low to medium volume settings.
Last is the Sabian 20" Hand Hammered ride I just got. Awesome sounding cymbal in both the crash and ride areas.
All 3 are also amazing "mallet roll" cymbals.
You gotta hear them first hand or it's a gamble.
Oh, and I also have a 22" 70's A Zil which weighs as much as a Buick. No chance of ever getting a crash out of it. Great rock ride though.
I really love the Tony Williams quote that Jaye posted earlier: "a cymbal is a cymbal". I think that is right on. I have always crashed my rides and even gone out and specifically bought large rides as crash cymbals. I used to play in a punky band so I could get away with a lot in terms of cymbal tone; however I really liked my Zildjian 20 " A custom as a crash.
James
I LOVED my Sabian 20 El Sabor! I had forgotten about that one. It was the classic 60's feel and sound. Unbelievable response. The 18 was pretty good, too. I don't recall if I ever owned a 22 or not. Too many of the dang things fly through here. But, that 20 El Sabor was a seriously sweet cymbal. Man, totally forgot about that one. Thanks for poking the ole' gray matter, Jaye.
[COLOR="DarkRed"]....great thing about 'em is they tend to go pretty cheap secondhand...I think the name and target audience sorta makes most players gloss over 'em...or maybe it's the flange.....they get almost no attention in auctions, really, compared to other Sabians.
A 20" Zilco which I purchased from a forum member here. I use it all the time both live and recording. I'd call it a medium weight, not light and not heavy.
[COLOR="Green"]Aaaaah...ain't those lil' sleepers ? I picked one off of eFlay for like $70 a while back...my intent was actually to just send it to a cymbalmaker and have them do some hammering to it...so I considered it more of a B20 "blank" than an actual finished cymbal. When I put it on the stand and starting playing it, though...I was like "this is a friggin' COOL cymbal !". A week later a guy posted one locally on C'list for $85...so I grabbed that one too. Nearly identical in weight and tone....[/COLOR]
What do you guys think of this Zildjian crash/ride (below). The price seems a bit high but I am not sure and I have never played one.
Yeah, Gerry (hazelshould) can sure write up some good press ! Seriously, though....he's a good guy, funny as hell, too...but I dunno...that's just a straight up more-or-less contemporary Avedis and 90% of those I have tried or heard have been really disappointing. I wouldn't go for it. For that dollar you can get a nice handmade....
[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Indigo"]I dunno, Lud..I mean...seems like you hit harder than I do and play a different context, so maybe the Sweet is appropriate for you. For me (and my Firth SD4 Swingers) it made a nice ride...pretty darn decent, actually, for a new Zildjian....but just didn't crash well for me.[/COLOR]
