Hi all. I'm wondering when Zildjian started to use machine hammering on their cymbals. I have a 20" with the 50's stamp and the hammering looks like it was done by machine and not by hand. The stamp is the late 50's stamp according to various sites online.
Thank you for any information.
"Vintage A's were completely hand hammered until around 1955. That means both sides, and the bells too. Then in 1955 they started using something called the "Quincy Drop Hammer" which was the first pneumatic hammering machine developed for Zildjian. From that point on their cymbals were machine hammered on the back-side, but with several rows of hand hammering on the top for added character. They stopped using any hand hammering by about the early 1960's. All hammering by that time was being done by machine and was on the top-side only."
The above quote is from one of the many discussions across the internet regarding your question. All of the above has been and will continue to be denied by Paul Francis, Director of R&D for Zildjian.
"Vintage A's were completely hand hammered until around 1955. That means both sides, and the bells too. Then in 1955 they started using something called the "Quincy Drop Hammer" which was the first pneumatic hammering machine developed for Zildjian. From that point on their cymbals were machine hammered on the back-side, but with several rows of hand hammering on the top for added character. They stopped using any hand hammering by about the early 1960's. All hammering by that time was being done by machine and was on the top-side only."The above quote is from one of the many discussions across the internet regarding your question. All of the above has been and will continue to be denied by Paul Francis, Director of R&D for Zildjian.
Thanks so much for this reply. The cymbal I mentioned is around 1940 grams and has 5 factory holes drilled about mid way between bell hole and edge of cymbal. No rivets. It's a good one! Thanks again.
I know a lot of people get hung up on hand hammered (or not) but I've found far more important is the behavior of the cymbal. If it has a good edge wobble, chances are I'm gonna like it.
I bought a 20 that's all beat to snot and cracked and it sounds amazing. It has a slight edge wobble.
My mid-50's 22 (large block stamp) has the edge wobble. I had that worked over by Justin and he described it as "a perfect 22" crash". Well, it's perfect now that he tweaked it.
I have an EAK that I lucked into. That thing has the wobble and sounds amazing. Those happened to be hand hammered (the early ones with the "K" on the bottom rather than "Zildjian" and the cymbal ID printed upside down compared to A Zildjians. A fairly narrow band, maybe up to 1981 or so- the very first ones with Tony Williams pushing them. Soon after they had the usual Zildjian ink on the bottom and finally the ID went right side up. For sure they were machine hammered by then.
Modern cymbals are tough. I found some K custom dark 13" hats used (abused) and was so impressed I sought out more from that line. I have a 20" ride and an 18" crash. They don't have the wobble and the 20" ride sits in the bag (or is a second ride to the old 22). I tried the 16" crash and it's horrible. I think the 19 will be good but if I were to buy another new Zildjian it would be a new K (Kerope series I guess?) very thin and Bendy. Most of the ones I e tried have the edge wobble. I believe they heat treat them (also called ageing for aerospace parts) and they look older than they are. These are sweet but I always keep my eyes out for the first-gen EAK's because those seem to be really special.
Why does Francis deny the pneumatic hammering? Were they still claiming all "hand hammered" at that point? It was sort of no? With a little help. Mallet Player2
Im the sort of guy that listens to a cymbal and says yes or no. I never look at names. Ive got some interesting cymbals but ive got to say zildjians are the main cymbals i have. Could i also say is it the wobble on the cymbal that gives that great sound. A mix of correct hammering size and lathing..
Ya know, Sildjians are really funny. It's like they had the "old coke" recipe and then threw it out in the 80's and hav spent 40-odd years trying to get back where they started...
