Right.....which like I already said are more for rock players, and not for jazz drummers. Most jazz drummers generally prefer true vintage style hats.....as in "old beats". You therefore, albeit unknowingly, have served to reinforce my initial assertion.

We may be in disagreement here over what constitutes true vintage, however.

60's is vintage to some, but to me, when you refer to vintage I think about Chick Webb.

im with you man ...i believe in the same vintage ...and would love one of those great dark hats...and beyond 60's is true vintage ....anything post beatles will never be made the same again...but i do believe these hats are rock vintage and they do not sound like the new beats of today( they look to have some hammering) they sound dark on stick contact, even when opned, but as you open them they go from a dark shhhhhto a higher pitch and then end.

i am after some good vintage dark hats but i will have to find them at a great deal cause i dont have the money for the epay prices.

I like to play a wide variety of music from jazz to rock, but even in rock i like somber , mellow dark sounds even with the sizzle..

i was happy to find my zildjian 20'' dark ride but really it doesnt sound as good as my 20'' italian made cheapy..