Here are a couple of pics .

Still have black stamps from factory TOP HIGH HAT NEW BEAT / BOTTOM HIGH HAT NEW BEAT ...3 dots in Arabic script .

You definitely have a set of "New Beats" there and that is about the right time period. Even after they were cleaned or polished the ink stamp left a ghost mark on the brass. I have a set of "Quick Beats" from the same period.

On the bronze, you mean.

/Magnus

New Beat History

=============

I'm doing a little project on the New Beat history since they appeared in 1963 so I can add a bit of info. We think the year of release is 1963, and the Zildjian web site says this and that they were inspired by Louis Bellson. Paul Francis (head of R&D at Zildjian) gave 1968 in an answer to a New Beat question, but that seems to be either a typo, or 1963 is the bottom as singleton and 1968 is the pair sold as a pair. I presume Paul was answering about the pair sold as a pair.

This article has both the 1963 date (bottom only era) and the 1968 date (sold as a pair)

http://www.drumscult.com/cymbals/zildjian-new-beat-hi-hat

but who knows how reliable their info is. All we can do is try and get as much info as possible.

Up until your post, it was looking like in the earliest phase the only ink was on the bottom hat. Yours shows that ink:

BOTTOM HI-HAT

NEW BEAT

In the first phase the ink is in a straight line. Later on it changes to be curved and the word order changes slightly to:

BOTTOM NEW BEAT

HI HAT

I've seen a few others from the earliest phase. I've got one, Magnus has one, and I've seen at least two others. This ink is the only way to recognize a "genuine" New Beat hat from the early era. Magnus got the info from Zildjian by email about the ink being only on the bottom. If I'm remembering correctly. Magnus?

One of the two others I've seen also had the hollow ink Zildjian on the bottom, which dates it to 1978 or possibly earlier (consensus date -- from another of my projects). I didn't think the first ink era lasted as long as that, but now we know it does. Or the date for the first hollow ink Zildjian isn't as accurate as we thought.

It would be great if you could measure the height of the stamp on yours. Yes it looks like what is what is called an early 60s stamp, but in order to differentiate it from the later 60s stamp we need that height. We're distinguishing between 1 3/16" and 1 1/2" so you have to measure carefully enough to distinguish them.

Also it would be great to have weights for the top and bottom. I've been collecting weights for these in order to show how much variation there is

[list]around the expected 2:3 weight ratio

[*]over time (they are said to have gotten heavier over the decades)[/list]

The project actually started because of collecting the weights, but expanded into the ink because of the need to tell the eras apart in order to shed light on the second aspect. It is still in the early phase.

Quick Beats didn't come out until around 1978 or 1979 according to a few sources, so they are quite a bit later. But of course, if you have 1960s ink and 1960s pressed in trademarks a revision of that date is due as well. Can you let me know if you do? I'm always up for new info.

Meanwhile back to New Beats:

The TOP ink stamps with the straight lettering have never been documented before, so it may be because the ghosting on the B20 bronze does go with repeated polishing. The ink naming the top hat is visible on top when the hats are in use, and that is the surface most prone to lots of polishing. The bottom ink is inside (at least on all the examples I've seen so far from the first and second generation) and since it isn't seen as much it doesn't get polished. Out of sight out of mind. Note that by inside I mean under the bell (ignoring the fact that that the bottom hat is used upside down).

So up until now I had

First era ink: (straight BOTTOM HI-HAT NEW BEAT)

[img]http://black.net.nz/cym2014/NewBeatBottom60s.jpg[/img]

Second era ink (curved BOTTOM NEW BEAT HI HAT)

[img]http://black.net.nz/cym2014/NewBeatHollow.jpg[/img]

Except that now the details of first and second era is up in the air again since we've seen

straight first era ink with the hollow ink Zildjian (I've got a pic somewhere but haven't found it yet)

the top straight ink in this thread

New info always means a chance to improve our understanding. Anybody have other things to contribute to this? I'm just collating it so we can make it freely available to the community for our mutual benefit. Drumaholic may well know all the answers to these ink changes and their timing, but he's playing his cards close to his chest until his big book comes out.

I won't have the cymbals for a few days yet , so can't tell you the weights . I can tell you that from viewing the auction photos that the ink stamps are still quite visible . The top cymbal has the ink stamp on top and the bottom cymbal has the ink stamp on the bottom . Straight line as per your first era cymbals pictured .

Great. Thanks jazzbo. Since this thread came up, it has got me pulling together the bits and pieces of text and pics which weren't all in one place in my filing system. It needed a tidyup. So thanks for the push.

Meanwhile, I found what I thought were the pics of the straight ink on the top plus a hollow ink Zlidjian on the bottom. But now that I look more closely at it (I even got a ruler out) I think maybe the top ink is actually curved but it doesn't appear like it at a casual glance. Four pics from the same pair. The die stamp on them is the 70s version without the 3 dots:

[img]http://black.net.nz/cym2014/Tops-NB-hollow.jpg[/img]

[img]http://black.net.nz/cym2014/Bots-NB-hollow.jpg[/img]

[img]http://black.net.nz/cym2014/Top-NB-hollow2.jpg[/img]

[img]http://black.net.nz/cym2014/Top-NB-hollow3.jpg[/img]

So you are watching the process of an untidy mind (or untidy data, or both :D ) in action here. Is the ink straight in that last photo or not? I know it's not stamped on exactly level nor properly centered relative to the mounding hole (neither is mine if you go back and look at it) but does the ink stamp itself curve? It's looking like it does have a slight curve like yours.

All of which means I'm still looking forward to finding out whatever you can tell us when they get there. My guess is that your stamp will be the 1.5" tall one.

Here is a link to the auction ...Stamps are straight . http://page17.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/v359387024