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8x14 20's Super Ludwig mystery drum?

Posts: 22 Threads: 9

Hello all,

I just purchased this 8x14 snare drum that I'm calling the Monster Drum due to the mix of components. The shell looks like 3-ply possibly walnut, with solid reinforcing rings. It has the 1924 patented Super Ludwig parallel snare mechanism with no guards, and there are no other holes to indicate that any other snare mechanism was mounted there. The age and oxidization of the indentations suggest the mechanism has been on the shell for a long time. However, on the 6x14 Super Ludwig drums of this period, usually the parallel mechanisms have longer vertical extensions so the throwoff lever is positioned next to the top hoop. This drum has a mechanism that is typical for a shorter drum. Perhaps because 8" was too tall? The shell has a nice grommet but no badge. It is also missing the bottom hoop so no engravings to verify.

It appears that at some point, the shell was re-drilled for different lugs, and the final iteration I purchased had solid walnut lugs (war time?) with little brass threaded inserts pinned inside to take the tension rods. These lugs were only mounted to the shell with a single wood screw. The backs of these solid lugs are also solid with only a single mounting hole for the wood screw. The most accurately spaced holes are 2.5" from each bearing edge which would make a tube lug that is 3" between mounting holes. The holes at 2 3/4" from the bearing edges show high variation in both directions enough that I think they were drilled later. Perhaps the wood lugs were added to help cover the old holes.

Lastly, someone added a 1930s Slingerland red felt muffler to assist with confusion.

So here are my questions:

1. Can anyone verify that Ludwig even made an 8x14" Super Ludwig drum between 1924 and 1926?

2. Does anyone recognize the make of the solid wood lugs? They are similar shape to Leedy but lack the edge detail.

3. Does anyone have a picture or information on what size tube lugs were available on an 8" deep Ludwig(?) shell back then? I'm planning on returning it back to tube lugs if they are determined to be correct for this shell.

4. Does anyone have a bottom single flanged hoop for a Super Ludwig for sale or trade?

Thank you all for your ideas and help.

Craig

Posted on 7 years ago
#1
Posts: 617 Threads: 7

I've not seen a Ludwig shell that looks like that.

Posted on 7 years ago
#2
Posts: 804 Threads: 9

From craig.cootsona

So here are my questions: 1. Can anyone verify that Ludwig even made an 8x14" Super Ludwig drum between 1924 and 1926?3. Does anyone have a picture or information on what size tube lugs were available on an 8" deep Ludwig(?) shell back then? I'm planning on returning it back to tube lugs if they are determined to be correct for this shell.

The 8" depth was too shallow for any Ludwig marching/parade drums of that era. There are no instances of an 8"x14" snare in the 20's-30's catalogs, however in the 30's you start to see 7"x14" and 8"x15" shells.

The first catalog appearance of a wood shell 8"x14" is 1940, however it is still showing metal lugs (plastic lugs were also available for certain kits at the time). I don't have any wartime catalogs so I can't check what was available lug wise for you, so you'll have to find a more accurate source than me!

Additionally, mahogany was the wood of choice back then so I would double check the species to determine whether or not it really is walnut or mahogany.

I've included a few screen shots of the 1940 catalog where I see the first appearance of the 8"x14" shell.

Posted on 7 years ago
#3
Posts: 297 Threads: 26

Looks like it may have been cobbled from a variety of parts...and then left to rot in someone's basement.

Posted on 7 years ago
#4
Posts: 165 Threads: 31

Hi,

I'd say its from wwII. Not Ludwig or Leedy. The lugs are different.

SAZ

1 attachments
1944 Catalog Page D Later.jpg
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Posted on 6 years ago
#5
Posts: 22 Threads: 9

I also spoke with Mike Curotto to get some idea of where the components came from. Here are his responses.

"Wow, Rat Drum #2!

Some thoughts:

Looks like a tom tom that was converted to a snare. The Tone control is from the early Slingerland Atrist, DuAll and Broadcaster Models. The Super mechanism is for a 4” shell.

Answers in red...

1. Can anyone verify that Ludwig even made an 8x14" Super Ludwig drum between 1924 and 1926? [COLOR="Red"]Not that I know of, the deepest shell for a 24-26 Ludwig Super would have been 6.5 x14 or 6.5 x 15 although I have an 8” 1930s L & L Super Ludwig that is a pretty strange snare drum.[/COLOR][/COLOR]

2. Does anyone recognize the make of the solid wood lugs? They are similar shape to Leedy but lack the edge detail. [COLOR="red"]They do look like Leedy, maybe WWII Leedy? That’s all I got.[/COLOR]

3. Does anyone have a picture or information on what size tube lugs were available on an 8" deep Ludwig(?) shell back then? I'm planning on returning it back to tube lugs if they are determined to be correct for this shell. [COLOR="red"]I have a 1930s Slingerland 8 x 14 DuAll that has a c-c tube lug spacing of approx. 4.5” but I can’t verify that is the same for a Ludwig drum...my 1930s Super Ludwig has Imperial lugs.[/COLOR]

4. Does anyone have a bottom single flanged hoop for a Super Ludwig for sale or trade? [COLOR="red"]I may have one but they are hard to find and not cheap.[/COLOR]

I hope this helps.

Mike Curotto"

Posted on 6 years ago
#6
Posts: 22 Threads: 9

Thank you all for the information. It looks like this shell must have come from a later period than the snare mechanism. With the Slingerland Harold R. Todd style Tone control, the consistent 3" hole spacing on the shell, and the 3-ply shell construction, I began to look at Slingerland as a possible source for the shell.

When I searched for drum lugs with a 3" spacing I found Slingerland cigar/streamlined lugs, some of which had a 3" spacing for bass drums. If this is correct, these lugs would also cover the holes that someone added later! The only inconsistency is that the lugs have those little extensions that partially go into the holes in the shell, and I think they are larger diameter than the holes in my shell!

So, another option is that the shell had a different type of wood lug, which likely used a small wood screw, consistent with the small holes in the shell. Maybe one or several broke over the years and someone made these unidentified lugs to replace them. The wood lug "rolling bomber" Slingerland shells have offset positioning for top and bottom lugs and changed their tone control by then so that's not it.

Posted on 6 years ago
#7
Posts: 22 Threads: 9

Hello all,

Thank you for your help in this project. Here is the Rat Rod Drum after restoration: Slingerland streamlined lugs with 3" on center hole mounts to match original holes in shell. The wood shell is still unidentified but thought to be 1940s based on when 8x14" drums began to show up in catalogs. The wood was cleaned with soap and water, buffed with "0000" steel wool, and treated with about 5 applications of Formby's Tung oil finish (contains varnish) with buffing in between. It was not sanded because I wanted to preserve the aged wood surface.

Because the 1924 Super Ludwig mechanism predates the rest of the drum by several decades, and the wood shell was only ever drilled to accept this mechanism, I concluded that someone purchased a wood shell in the 1940s and added spare hardware from Ludwig and Slingerland to build it.

The value of this drum will only ever be the composite of its part so I was not too concerned about finding all nickel hardware to match. I located a chrome finish Pearl single flanged snare side hoop with gates large enough to clear the Super Ludwig mechanism, tension rods and lugs. I was able to find nickel hoop clips to replace those that were missing.

For those looking for large double-ended Slingerland Streamlined (Cigar) lugs, they are nearly impossible to find in nickel and without cracks. The bottom hoop, lugs, nickel plated clips, and tension rods were found at this supplier: (Disclaimer, I don't work for them but I appreciate the selection because they helped move this project along after searching for several weeks)

https://www.drumfactorydirect.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6_9_66&products_id=13023

Best regards,

Craig

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Posted on 6 years ago
#8
Posts: 1334 Threads: 235

Good restoration job! The thumb wheels at each end should be reversed though...

Mike Curotto

Posted on 6 years ago
#9
Posts: 804 Threads: 9

WOW! What a transformation... great job on bringing that drum back to life!

Posted on 6 years ago
#10
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