What is that stamped above the logo? Is that a "G"? If so, I thought only imported cymbals got the "G" stamp if they were from Gretsch. I'd like to find out that piece of info.

Might you be referring to the small holes near the edge on the trans stamp?

Four holes have been drilled... either for rivets or, more likely, for escape of air.... probably not originally drilled by Zildjian.

So it's a hole...explains my confusion.

Those rivit holes are factory,...4 or 6 are common on A`s. !i

WOW! In hihat bottoms?

As Johnny used to say, [FONT="Arial Black"]"I did not know that!"[/FONT]

Thanks for the info.

Ron

Do you have a reference for this? I'm thinking old ad copy or catalog from the Trans stamp era.

I haven't got any catalogs or ads going back that far in time. And I just re-read that section of The Cymbal Book but it isn't at all explicit on when companies started drilling holes in bottoms. It makes it sound like that was only post 1970s, but as I say it isn't explicit. Any help appreciated.

Zen, Indeed! My thoughts too. Thanks

Ron

I`ve seen my share of 14" drilled with four holes identical to this one, later fifties. The chances that someone drilled the four points of the compass are good, but the chances that they all drilled the same size and distance from the edges are not so good. My 15" is drilled the same. While this is not proof of any kind, I`ve seen enough to tell the differences and those look factory to me. I stand by that based on observation alone. On another note, in the fifties, drummers tended to have smaller HH cymbals. Not all but alot. The six hole average on the 15 and 16, while the four holes average on the 14 and 13 and I don`t believe they where intended for hats !i

Like I said, it`s been my observation and the last thing I would consider is the drilling to let compression air out !i One of the ideas behind HH effect is to have contact before close, and that`s plenty to let air out !i To sizzle them you make desired contact setting.

While two different stamps on two different weights can be used, it don`t make them hats !i Proof of them not being factory is a different animal !i

If you want proof, I can`t do that. But the same for proof otherwise !i

Of course it's true, as Oddball pointed out, two 14s weren't necessarily originally fabricated to be hihats. It would seem most unlikely that they are a matched set, given the different stamps.

On the other hand, given the placement of the holes so near the outer edge, I would question whether the cymbal was originally fabricated as a sizzle.

See the placement of the 6 factory drilled holes in relation to the outer circumference in the pic below of my 50s crash ride (purchased new in 1963)

Furthermore, the weight of 1110g makes a strong case for its having been intended as a bottom hihat as opposed to a 14" sizzle crash.

Here is Bill Maley's response to my query:

Hi Ron, nice looking cymbals! I'm sure Zildjian would have done that if

asked, but I also imagine it was pretty rare. Of the many '50s hi hat

pairs I've had over the years, only 2 have had holes in the bottom cymbal,

and they definitely weren't factory. I have a '50s K Zildjian 14" here now

with holes in similar spots, but it has pencil lines leading out from the

mounting hole, so it looks to be a homemade job.

So I'd say that yes, it's possible, but I've never personally seen a pair

that I was convinced was factory out of maybe 100 sets of '50s A Zil hats.

Take care,

Bill