Gretsch (and other companies) liked to crimp the end of the threaded bolt, so that it can't come all the way loose. If you try to force it out, it will usually strip the threads or receiver, or break something. Before removing the knob, you can clean up the thread, and remove the crimp, using a die from a common tap and die set available at Home Depot or Lowe's. Once this is done it comes on and off very easily. You can also use a tap and clean up the threads of the receiver.

Thanks,

Bill

I never noticed a "crimp" on the mutes I've installed or replaced.

And how would tapping out the receiver solve the stripped barrel (receiver)? The threaded dial does not fit because now the barrel receiver thingie is stripped and is too large. Or am I missing something here?

The crimp is almost always there, especially on 50's Gretsch. It can be hard to spot. Or, if the bolt was forced through the receiver, it can get "cleaned" off (at the expense of the receiver).

Regarding cleaning the receiver threads with a tap, I didn't mean one that had already been stripped...I was referring to preventative maintenance on one that is still in good shape.

I've dealt with a few hundred of these mufflers, and have never seen one that was stripped just from being under tension. There are two reasons they end up being stripped - either they were forced loose and the crimp ruins the receiver, or they were forced loose while frozen from corrosion or rust, and the receiver threads give before the rust does. It should always be easy to remove the knob bolt...if there is resistance than either the crimp is catching, or the corrosion needs to be dealt with.

Here's some pics.

The first shows a standard early style muffler with the thick aluminum bracket. An arrow points to the crimp, and another arrow points to the area where corrosion freezes the muffler.

[IMG]http://www.classicvintagedrums.com/crimp.jpg[/IMG]

This pic shows a die on the bolt, ready to clean the thread and remove the crimp. The thread size for these muffler bolts is 10-32.

[IMG]http://www.classicvintagedrums.com/die1.jpg[/IMG]

This pic shows the wrench on the die for additional leverage. Make sure to use oil with the die.

[IMG]http://www.classicvintagedrums.com/die2.jpg[/IMG]

This last pic shows the clean thread. The best way to deal with any corrosion is PB Blaster...works MUCH better than WD-40 (as any car mechanic will attest).

[IMG]http://www.classicvintagedrums.com/clean_thread.jpg[/IMG]

Thanks,

Bill

My Rant:

Let me see if I got this right......All five of the Gretsch Mutes I installed last year on my 58 Gretsch drum restoration are probably "toast" because I did not know about the "scoring" that Gretsch did on the dials? Also, probably everyone else that sent me some mutes didn't know that as well when they took them off the drum & put them on eBay - or just landed up with them somehow & put them up for sale on eBay. No one even mentioned the "scoring" when I was restoring my drums.

I'm now tempted to leave them all in place........as oriniments and not use them.....I bought one (supposedley "Mint Condition") on eBay last night...we'll see when I look for the crimp.

I don't think people go to the trouble of fitting the "dye" on the end of the dial when they remove the mute for what ever reason (paint/refinish/wrap - whatever). So they must all be pretty well ruining the barrel-part on the mute. Freakin interesting......I wish I would have know that before I resotred my drums last year.

Thanks for the photos & the information.

I wonder if Gretsch uses the same technology when you order new USA Custom drums with internal mutes??

Gary, believe me when I say I learned this one the hard way! I ruined a bunch of mufflers before someone on a forum clued me in. The crimps are not always there, just most of the time. And, even when forced they do not always ruin the receiver. Sometimes the crimp is minor and doesn't do much damage. I've also seen muffler bolts that were sawed off just below the crimp, which seems stupid to me.

Later 60's and 70's mufflers aren't crimped as often, and I'm not sure if new ones are at all. I have two almost new mufflers if interested...I'll sell them for what I have in them plus shipping if you need them.

Thanks,

Bill

I'm interested - How can I pay for them?

This information is good to know and should be on a Sticky somewhere if not already. I mean, from what you're telling me it should be one of the things we tell fellow "formites" as soon as we get a whif of someone restoring an old Gretsch kit. I know I'd be giving the "heads-up" on this the very next time I see someone doing it or looking for advice.

Thanks a bunch Bill.

That's a real bummer about your mutes, Kona.

That should be a sticky ... maybe David or Tommy will do that... darn good idea.

Hope you get it straightened out.

Kev

I know for a fact that when you order a NEW muffler from Gretsch that they are NOT crimped. They come partially assembled, and they know they have to be fully assembled into the drum first before crimping the end, so they are not crimped. They leave that up to the owner to do. BTW, the new replacement mufflers are still exactly the same as they have been since the 1960's......

Bill, once again I learn something totally surprising from you.

Geez, I wish this had come up 6 weeks ago just before I took apart my 1960 Gretsch set down to the shells.

Man those mutes were hard to twist off. Well now I know why. I WD-40d the heck out of them (PB Blaster in Europe ain't gonna happen) and wore a leather glove so I wouldn't destroy my palm.

It worked. I also got them back on and they work alright now, so maybe I am lucky.

Gary, great topic, this never would have even occurred to me. I just thought they were tight 50 year old parts.....