The first flat ride was called a "space sound" and it predates this one by a few years. It was made for Joe Morello. An old discussion thread from cymbalholic

http://www.cymbalholic.com/forums/showthread.php?28962-Paiste-Space-Sound

As to price. I've been tracking eBay sales of 602s and Sound Creations since 2005 and the expected (median) price for an 18" 602 flat is $300 if you know nothing else about it. However, with ink logos like that on it you can add a bonus of 50% or $150. That brings you to $450 expected value. Prices on eBay are bouncing around like the stock market at the moment so it is hard to say exactly what you will get on the day.

These are the sales I've recorded for 18" flats

fo602 18 flat medium ebay 26-Nov-05 $213.50 5 bids

fo602 18 flat 7sound medium ebay 12-Dec-05 $251.00 14 germany>usa

fo602 18 flat medium black ebay 12-Dec-05 $250.00 1

fo602 18 flat blue ebay 15-Feb-06 $306.00 3

fo602 18 flat blue ebay 9-Apr-06 $302.00 16

fo602 18 flat 1733g keyhole black ebay 14-May-06 $102.50 3 nl>usa

fo602 18 flat 1400 thin black ebay 31-May-06 $300.00 1 nl

fo602 18 flat keyhole trademe 27-Jun-06 $185.00 20

fo602 18 flat 1782 medium black ebay 21-Oct-06 $320.00 16 resonanthead netherlands

fo602 18 flat 7sound preserial ebay 24-Nov-06 $169.48 9 misad

fo602 18 flat medium 1749 black ebay 13-Mar-07 $256.66 10 strong nl>uk

fo602 18 flat preserial ebay 27-Mar-07 $326.66 6 gone

fo602 18 flat keyhole preserial ebay 2-Apr-07 $212.50 -1 same xact

fo602 18 flat excellent blue ebay 11-Apr-07 $400.00 9 strong

fo602 18 flat medium 1758 medium black ebay 3-May-07 $362.00 14 strong

fo602 18 flat medium 1775 blue ebay 5-May-07 $256.09 25 strong

fo602 18 flat 7sound 1735 ebay 10-Jun-07 $296.00 11

fo602 18 flat 7sound 1750 black ebay 22-Oct-07 $457.99 29

fo602 18 flat blue ebay 28-Oct-07 $305.00 23

fo602 18 flat medium 1720 black ebay 5-Nov-07 $435.00 18 present

fo602 18 flat 7sound thin ebay 10-Feb-08 $316.00 5 present

fo602 18 flat medium blue ebay 20-Feb-08 $242.50 14 faded 2 rivets

fo602 18 flat 1525 excellent thin preserial ebay 9-Mar-08 $270.02 12 present pat pending

fo602 18 flat medium 1765 good blue ebay 16-Mar-08 $203.50 17 strong

fo602 18 flat medium excellent preserial ebay 21-Mar-08 $394.99 11 strong

fo602 18 flat blue ebay 7-Apr-08 $245.00 1 faded 2 rivets

fo602 18 flat medium 1523 blue ebay 29-Apr-08 $250.00 2 faded

fo602 18 flat medium excellent blue ebay 11-May-08 $373.99 15 strong

fo602 18 flat medium keyhole black ebay 8-Jun-08 $345.40 -1 strong

fo602 18 flat medium medium blue ebay 20-Jun-08 $225.00 -1 faded

fo602 18 flat ebay 23-Jun-08 $317.50 18

fo602 18 flat 7sound 1520 ebay 29-Jun-08 $560.00 19 faded

fo602 18 flat 1765 excellent medium blue ebay 6-Jul-08 $255.00 -1 strong

fo602 18 flat medium 1685 excellent blue ebay 19-Oct-08 $400.00 25 strong

fo602 18 flat medium good preserial trademe 28-Oct-08 $145.00 25 faded $nz265 hollow Paiste under

fo602 18 flat sapcesound 2300 good medium preserial ebay 11-Nov-08 $300.00 -1 faded

fo602 18 flat medium 1825 excellent preserial online 15-Nov-08 $350.00 -1 faded

fo602 18 flat medium 1620 excellent medium blue ebay 16-Nov-08 $299.00 5 strong

fo602 18 flat medium 1685 excellent medium blue ebay 19-Nov-08 $400.00 25 strong

fo602 18 flat thin excellent black ebay 20-Nov-08 $152.50 11 faint $nz265 hollow Paiste under

fo602 18 flat medium 1800 excellent blue ebay 24-Nov-08 $282.00 13 strong

fo602 18 flat 7sound 1650 excellent black ebay 5-Mar-09 $231.00 3 strong flat NL

fo602 18 flat 1460 excellent preserial ebay 19-Apr-09 $197.49 11 gone

fo602 18 flat 1516 excellent preserial ebay 19-Apr-09 $270.00 11 gone 8 rivets

fo602 18 flat medium excellent blue ebay 3-May-09 $179.60 6 faded

fo602 18 flat medium 1722 excellent blue ebay 10-May-09 $151.50 13 faded bettis

fo602 18 flat medium excellent preserial ebay 1-Jun-09 $325.00 -1 gone

fo602 18 flat medium excellent blue ebay 1-Jun-09 $350.00 2 strong

fo602 18 flat medium 1730 excellent black ebay 10-Oct-09 $199.00 1 present

fo602 18 flat 1530 excellent preserial ebay 17-Nov-09 $500.00 1 gone drumaholic

fo602 18 flat good black ebay 17-Nov-09 $250.00 8 strong uk sn750022

fo602 18 flat good blue ebay 21-Dec-09 $256.48 12 faded

fo602 18 flat thin 1450 excellent black ebay 18-Feb-10 $399.00 2 faded sss #4

fo602 18 flat thin excellent black ebay 24-Feb-10 $150.00 1 strong

fo602 18 flat thin 1488 good black ebay 5-Mar-10 $191.93 1 faded uk sn819518

fo602 18 flat thin excellent black ebay 18-Apr-10 $319.99 1 strong

You'll notice our own Drumaholic sold one for $500 back in 17-Nov-09. ;) *** edit *** At least I'm pretty sure the 18" he sold was a flat. Now that I think about it that could have been an 18" thin. I certainly remember an 18" 602 with the "thin" still on it in red lettering. I'll have to check my notes.

There are only a few Seven Sound (or Space Sound) sales. It doesn't look like being Seven Sound or Space Sound boosts the price, but the effect is entangled with having nice clear ink. If the ink is gone you can't know it is a Seven Sound set.

I don't always record the presence/absence of rivets or rivet holes (life is too short to record everything!) but my impression is that it doesn't change the price that much. But I haven't estimated this with the same statistical accuracy I have used to model other factors.

A link to my "rule of thumb"

http://www.cymbalholic.com/forums/showthread.php?30271-New-Paiste-602-SC-value-rule-of-thumb

The spreadsheet of Paiste 602/SC tracking data is available to anybody who wants it to do their own analysis. A full description of my coding scheme is available along with that. You can use the find function in your browser and search for "7sound" to highlight the lines in my post which are for those in particular, but obviously you have more analysis capability in the original spreadsheet. Oh, and I'm up to a month behind on my data entry.

Enjoy.

Thanks for the info.

How did you arrive at the $300 median price?

Curious

Wow, that's a lot of info. You have a day job doing that!

Thanks!

Do you mean how to calculate a median for a set of numbers? It is defined here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median

Do you mean why use the median? The median is relatively unaffected by a few extreme values so it is less likely to be highly influenced by a few unusually high or low sale prices, or the occasional miscoding. Why are miscodings a problem? Sometimes people advertise a cymbal incorrectly but I can't tell if the buyer knew that or not. So uncertainty creeps in no matter how faithfully I record what I come across.

Do you mean what software I use to calculate it? I used Excel and having obtained a column of numbers I want to get a median for I rank it and then take the one half way down. I also use R for anything fancy in the statistical analysis.

Do you mean what do I include in my set of numbers? For an analysis like 602 18" flat rides, I select all the 602 18" flat rides in my database. These are all fields I can select on. Then I filter out any which have serious cracks or defects. I note (but keep in the analysis) any which are mis-advertised (say somebody claims something is a crash but it isn't, or fails to put 602 anywhere in an ad, or misspells Paiste).

I'm retired, but yes I have a PhD and 35+ years of research experience in mostly public health surveys and consumer behavior studies. So I already have the knowledge and the tools at hand. Can't play drum kit very well, but pricing research is my way of giving something back to the drumming community for all the great stuff I learn here. I got interested after I bought a 602 pre serial flat 20" and wondered if i paid I good price for it. Impulse buy first, research after!

Your fourth question back to my question applies the best.

Thanks !

Always glad to clarify. Ask an academic a simple question, get an essay. Mind Blowi

It's for sale on ebay now by the way.

I love the stats. Excellent contribution. Thank you.

As for the cymbal ... I don't honestly believe those are factory holes. They are spaced out very arbitrarily. There's not an identifiable pattern or evenness to them. It certainly looks homemade. That will impact value.

Paiste doesn't believe in rivets too much, so I concur........

Those are non factory rivets added..........

IF factory,there are usually only 4 at 3,6,9 and 12 o'clock.

Blair