[COLOR="DarkRed"]Paiste started making B8 when they introduced the Stambul '65 - those were never lacquered. Scimitar Bronze and early Amirs were never lacquered either. Nor Meinl's B8 lines. Nor those tons of Japanese B8's from the '60's. Nor the '70's Italian ones (stuff such as Abex etc). They still look & perform fine today. It's not necessary for that alloy to be lacquered. IMHO a marketing thang to make 'em look all shiny and purdy - then they can sell you the cleaner\protector !!![/COLOR]

Jaye, my friend, i am going to have to agree with you also! I've played paistes all my life, i use their cymbal cleaner in the orange and blue bottle, but the conditioner???? WTF, kind a silly to me,they are metal and over time they are gone to oxidize anyway!! if they are my zildjians or sabians i like those dirty, but my 2002's i keep semi clean<

Yes I agree that the earlier cymbals were not coated...and this is why they started doing it to them in the 1970's. They found the coating helped keep them looking newer longer. I disagree that its a "marketing ploy".....even Zildian and Sabian do this to their cymbals now too, and not just the lower line B8 cymbals. Its a protectant to help them look newer longer. Cymbals with the coating intact are rather easy to clean....windex and a soft cloth work wonders to remove fingerprints and LIGHT stick marks. Anything heavier than that and you need to use the cleaner, which will remove the coating, which is why Paiste sells the coating in a bottle too....so you can re-apply it if you want to.

actually windex contains cleaning agents (solvents Ammonia Hydroxide) which will and does remove the wax coating on paiste cymbals, contact paiste they'll tell you that is a royal NONO!!! use only there cleaner nothing else and gently at that as it is on the directions!!plus they only came out with the conditioner recently!! 10 years or so!!

I know some people who like Groove Juice dilute it considerably before applying to cymbals. I didn't like the stuff the one time I used it, so I didn't hang on to the dilution formulation, but it might be worth searching out, especially if the bottle you have isn't empty.

Patrick

Patrick. it's still to strong, it will remove the logos pronto! groove juice is one of my all time favs for rust removal at full strength! great chrome cleaner, With paiste use there cleaner ONLY!!! the signatures finish is more forgiving than the 2002 finish is!!

The factory applied coating is not a wax coating, its a lacquer finish. Windex does NOT remove the finish. I have used it before for LIGHT stick marks and such and it has not taken the finish off. Groove juice WILL take the finish off....if you read the ingredients to Groove Juice, you will find it contains mainly petroleum distillites....aka paint thinner, a solvent. Solvents take paint (including clear lacquer) off of anything. Windex has a minimal amount of ammonia in it, its mostly water and coloring. Straight ammonia MAY remove the finish, but you'd have to soak the cymbal in it for a while for it to do a thing.

The Paiste cleaner is very mild stuff, it barely even removes any of the ink labels. The sealer coating that they sell in the bottle has been around for at least 20 years and yes, it may be a wax coating.....but it still is a sealer coating and its designed to keep the cymbals looking good between cleanings.

I think everyone is missing the point here. DOH Paiste offers the sealer and recommends it for all of their B8 cymbals, and it works! Yes it is a two step process, but it works! IT IS NOT A MARKETING PLOY.

From Paiste's website:

Cleaning

Every Paiste Cymbal is treated with a special protective coating, designed to resist fingerprints and light stick marks. It also prevents oxidizing-that all too familiar green color we've all seen on old cymbals. This coating makes it very easy for maintenance. The coating allows fingerprints and light marks to come clean quite easily by wiping in the direction of the grooves with a soft cloth.

Cleaning Advice

Play with clean hands. Dirty, sweaty hands are not good for your cymbals.

Wipe your cymbals frequently with a soft, dry cloth, and after each practice session or performance. Remove dirt and spills immediately.

Clean your cymbals more often with just warm water and soap.

If you have to use a cleaner, use a mild, non-abrasive cleaner. Obviously, we recommend Paiste Cymbal Cleaner & Protector.

Do not use mechanical buffing tools. They generate heat and may be too strong, so that you may remove not only dirt but metal as well.

Cleaning with the Paiste

Cymbal Cleaner & Protector

First lay the cymbal on a table covered with a smooth carpet or cloth surface.

Next wet the cymbal with water and also wet a cotton cloth with water.

Squirt a few drops of Paiste Cymbal Cleaner onto the cloth (not onto the cymbal directly) and make sure the cleaner is well watered-down.

With the cloth, gently wipe the cymbal in the direction of the lathing grooves until you see dirt being removed from the surface. Do not rub at all! As soon as you see dirt or grime on the rag, stop the cleaning process.

Rinse off the cymbal with a different wet cloth until the cleaner is completely removed. You can also rinse the cymbal directly under running luke warm water instead.

When the cleaner is completely removed, use a new dry cloth and gently wipe around the cymbal until it's completely dry. Again, never rub!

After completing the cleaning instructions, pour a small portion of Paiste Cymbal Protector on a clean dry cloth and gently wipe around the grooves of the cymbal. The protector serves as a temporary coating and prevents the bronze surface from oxidizing. Your newly cleaned and protected cymbals will be worth the effort!

Cleaning Color Coated Cymbals

For cymbals that feature that Paiste Colorsound Coating (black, white, etc., e.g. Visions) the standard cleaning procedures are not applicable. Use only a dry or damp cloth, gently rubbing in the direction of the grooves. For hard to remove dirt or stick marks, warm water and mild soap can be used but again, no harsh cleaners. This coating is designed not to come off, unless metal to metal contact is made. Paiste Colorsound Coated cymbals should always be stored in their plastic sleeves or separated by cloth, towels, or other soft materials. Never allow them to rest against each other, or against other cymbals without some protection between them. These points will keep your color coated cymbals looking like new for years to come.

I personally don't consider Windex a "harsh solvent". It has a very small amount of ammonia in it, the rest is water, its no more harmful than dish soap.

From Zildjian's website on the now discontinued ZXT Titanium cymbals:

New Zildjian Cymbal Cleaning Polish is specially formulated to clean, polish and protect all Zildjian cast AND sheet bronze cymbals in one easy application. 8 fl. oz/250ml.

(Note: Not for use on ZXT Titanium cymbals! For ZXT Titanium cymbals it is recommended to use an ammonia-based window cleaner. Abrasive cleaners can remove the finish).

There it is, abrasive cleaners........window cleaner is non-abrasive, so should be fine, even for regular cymbals.