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good mahogany..bad mahogany?

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Recently a young guy says to me "im looking for a vintage mahogany kit,BUT not that cheap MIJ stuff,you know the cheap mahogany?"...First off,does anyone know if the sound would be that different from say an old Slingy and a decent Star kit?..Also,could you tell the difference in a blind fold test?

Hit like you mean it!!
Posted on 14 years ago
#1
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There is a huge difference between mahogany and luan which is what the majority of MIJ drums were made of. Yes, the sound would be very different between a Slingy and Star.

Posted on 14 years ago
#2
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From deadhead

There is a huge difference between mahogany and luan which is what the majority of MIJ drums were made of. Yes, the sound would be very different between a Slingy and Star.

I completely agree huge difference,,

Your drummers not much good is he!? What you need is someone that's as good as me. ! John Henry Bonham !!
Posted on 14 years ago
#3
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Mahogany.

The unqualified term mahogany should not be used to describe wood other than genuine solid mahogany (genus Swietenia of the Meliaceae family). The woods of genus Swietenia may be described by the term ‘‘mahogany’’ with or without a prefix designating the country or region of its origin, such as ‘‘Honduras mahogany’’, ‘‘Costa Rican mahogany’’, ‘‘Brazilian mahogany’’ or ‘‘Mexican mahogany’’.

The term ‘‘mahogany’’ may be used to describe solid wood of the genus Khaya of the Meliaceae family, but only when prefixed by the word ‘‘African’’ (e.g., ‘‘African mahogany desk’’).

In naming or designating the seven non-mahogany Philippine woods Tanguile, Red Lauan, White Lauan, Tiaong, Almon, Mayapis, and Bagtikan, the term ‘‘mahogany’’ may be used but only when prefixed by the word ‘‘Philippine’’ (e.g., ‘‘Philippine mahogany table’’), due to the long standing usage of that term. Examples of improper use of the term ‘‘mahogany’’ include reference to Red Lauan as ‘‘Lauan mahogany’’ or to White Lauan as ‘‘Blond Lauan mahogany’’. Such woods, however, may be described as ‘‘Red Lauan’’ or ‘‘Lauan’’ or ‘‘White Lauan’’, respectively.

The term ‘‘Philippine mahogany’’ will be accepted as a name or designation of the seven woods named above. Such term shall not be applied to any other wood, whether or not grown on the Philippines.

The term ‘‘mahogany’’, with or without qualifications, should not be used to describe any other wood except as provided above. This applies also to any of the woods belonging to the Meliaceae family, other than genera Swietenia and Khaya.

Lauan (sometimes spelled Laun) usually contains formaldahyde and is typically used for cabnetry and walls in RV's and travel trailers. Many people got formaldahyde poising by staying in new trailers after Kitrina hit the Gulf Coast.

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 14 years ago
#4
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OK....But how does it sound?LoLoLoLo

Hit like you mean it!!
Posted on 14 years ago
#5
Posts: 5173 Threads: 188
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"woody" !

;)

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 14 years ago
#6
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From wayne

OK....But how does it sound?LoLoLoLo

Lauan sounds kind of "dead" and not very resonant, due to the porousness and softness of the wood. It will absorb a lot of the sound, which results in a lack of sustain and higher frequencies. "Real" mahogany is a harder wood, which means it's more reflective in nature and will allow the sound to sustain and project.

If you're looking for a bop tuning with high pitches that are choked off, it doesn't matter which kind of kit you get (unless it's not very sturdy, as some cheaper kits are, but not most of the MIJ stuff--they are typically plenty sturdy). If you want a "bigger" sound or more sustain, then you should go for a kit made with hardwood.

And yes, it would be pretty easy to tell the difference in a blindfold test, if you knew what to listen for. I don't think you could pull a random person off the street and expect them to tell you the difference...

1970 Ludwig Downbeat
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Posted on 14 years ago
#7
Posts: 5173 Threads: 188
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Actually, Wayne, I believe the sound has to do with the density and the way the grain of the wood is structured.

Most lauan has a splintery structure -almost like how a box of toothpicks is aligned inside its box. What happens is that the vibrations from the head enter into a lauan shell and are quickly attenuated by the looseness of the grain and that's what gives them a short, resonant-less sustain.

Real mahogany has a completely different structure. It's a lot harder, for one thing and its grain is of a very different structure -much more stable and not splintery.

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 14 years ago
#8
Posts: 5173 Threads: 188
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From caddywumpus

Lauan sounds kind of "dead" and not very resonant, due to the porousness and softness of the wood. It will absorb a lot of the sound, which results in a lack of sustain and higher frequencies. "Real" mahogany is a harder wood, which means it's more reflective in nature and will allow the sound to sustain and project.If you're looking for a bop tuning with high pitches that are choked off, it doesn't matter which kind of kit you get (unless it's not very sturdy, as some cheaper kits are, but not most of the MIJ stuff--they are typically plenty sturdy). If you want a "bigger" sound or more sustain, then you should go for a kit made with hardwood.And yes, it would be pretty easy to tell the difference in a blindfold test, if you knew what to listen for. I don't think you could pull a random person off the street and expect them to tell you the difference...

D'OH! beat me to it! :)

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 14 years ago
#9
Posts: 2433 Threads: 483
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I did a test today with a 12"mij and a 13" old mahog Sling i had laying around.Different but similar,you know what i mean.Both are 60,s vintage and i used the same tuning and heads.I believe your theory about softer/harder wood is correct.I experienced it when i was building snare shells,BUT the one factor you may have over looked is the aging process.The mij shell has had 40+ years to harden up where the already harder mahog probably did,nt move as much as the luan...There was margainally less sustain as expected,but not much at all.In fact i had to really concentrate to hear it...The aging process likely does more to wood in terms of sound than i thought,which could be one of many factors determining the true "vintage sound".....

I,d like to know if you feel that aging also affects pianos,stand up bass,guitars etc.Im fascinated by the topic but i cant seem to find an "expert" anywhere that can nail it down....thx for sharing lads,i appreciate it.

Hit like you mean it!!
Posted on 14 years ago
#10
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