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Need help IDing 1920s Snare Drum...

Posts: 10714 Threads: 579

From TheHotIron

First off,... thanks a million guys! All of the help is very valued and appreciated!Yep, its brass,... its actually Chrome on brass, not your run of the mill nickel as is so commonly seen, so someone paid good money for that option back in the day, as some of you may know.My initial idea was Ludwig, but yeah, the butt is kind of weird,.... never saw that on a Ludwig or Leedy??No other ideas on that? Maybe did someone replace the Ludwig piece long ago?I mean it looks like its been on there since its birth waaaaay back??

I had a 20's 6 1/2x14 pioneer cob so somone spent essentially the same money on a entry level drum when they could of had a pro model for about the same money??? it's very possible it was changed long ago.. i have seen that butt end before just don't remember where??

Your drummers not much good is he!? What you need is someone that's as good as me. ! John Henry Bonham !!
Posted on 14 years ago
#11
Posts: 683 Threads: 96

http://cgi.ebay.com/OLD-VINTAGE-LUDWIG-TUBE-LUG-SNARE-DRUM-ANTIQUE_W0QQitemZ170448856232QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintgae_Drums_Percussion?hash=item27af8b24a8

Give this a look-see butt side is the same...

30's Radio King - 26, 13, 13, 16
49 - WFL Ray McKinley - 26, 13, 16
58 - Slingerland Duco
58 - Slingerland Krupa Deluxe
70 - Ludwig Champagne Sparkle - 20, 12, 14
70 - Ludwig Champagne Sparkle - 22 (need), 13, 16
And some others..
Posted on 14 years ago
#12
Posts: 10714 Threads: 579

[quoteoneDrumming=G;60345]http://cgi.ebay.com/OLD-VINTAGE-LUDWIG-TUBE-LUG-SNARE-DRUM-ANTIQUE_W0QQitemZ170448856232QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintgae_Drums_Percussion?hash=item27af8b24a8

Give this a look-see butt side is the same...[/quote] (2) in a row Ok who the heck are you FBI, excellent detective work gonedrumming!!Yes Sir

Your drummers not much good is he!? What you need is someone that's as good as me. ! John Henry Bonham !!
Posted on 14 years ago
#13
Posts: 683 Threads: 96

hehehe too much coffee tonight... :) I really want to be out in the garage but I ran out of kerosene for my heater so I'm stuck in the house..

30's Radio King - 26, 13, 13, 16
49 - WFL Ray McKinley - 26, 13, 16
58 - Slingerland Duco
58 - Slingerland Krupa Deluxe
70 - Ludwig Champagne Sparkle - 20, 12, 14
70 - Ludwig Champagne Sparkle - 22 (need), 13, 16
And some others..
Posted on 14 years ago
#14
Posts: 392 Threads: 30

From vintagemore2000

I had a 20's 6 1/2x14 pioneer cob so somone spent essentially the same money on a entry level drum when they could of had a pro model for about the same money??? it's very possible it was changed long ago.. i have seen that butt end before just don't remember where??

vintagemore2000 - Although as time went by the original Ludwig snares improved with new strainers etc.. It seems like Ludwig kept the original snare and appropriately renamed it the Pioneer. It seems to have become a student (entry level) model later, but in the 20s when the name was changed to Pioneer it was essentially The Ludwig “All Metal Separate Tension” Drum as seen in the 1918 catalog. It’s my understanding that that is why it was called the Pioneer, as in “the one that prepared the way”. Your mileage may vary.

“In fact your pedal extremities are a bit obnoxious”. – Fats Waller
Posted on 14 years ago
#15
Posts: 683 Threads: 96

I think Ludwig and Slingerland both used the Universal name at some point. I don't know if it was during the same time period or not, maybe they flipped a coin.. :)

I thought Duplex was the first to seperate the strainer etc. Yes or No? Someone give me a history lesson.

30's Radio King - 26, 13, 13, 16
49 - WFL Ray McKinley - 26, 13, 16
58 - Slingerland Duco
58 - Slingerland Krupa Deluxe
70 - Ludwig Champagne Sparkle - 20, 12, 14
70 - Ludwig Champagne Sparkle - 22 (need), 13, 16
And some others..
Posted on 14 years ago
#16
Posts: 10714 Threads: 579

From 510

vintagemore2000 - Although as time went by the original Ludwig snares improved with new strainers etc.. It seems like Ludwig kept the original snare and appropriately renamed it the Pioneer. It seems to have become a student (entry level) model later, but in the 20s when the name was changed to Pioneer it was essentially The Ludwig “All Metal Separate Tension” Drum as seen in the 1918 catalog. It’s my understanding that that is why it was called the Pioneer, as in “the one that prepared the way”. Your mileage may vary.

510-- the time period your speaking of is only one year, 1922 was when my drum would of existed, 1923 is when the 8 lug heavy brass shell came about, the pioneer shell is thinner compared to the one year difference 1923 shell, so in the day my comparison holds water, the options on that pioneer i had would of bought a 8 lug ludwig all metal snare drum. if i read you right ??

Your drummers not much good is he!? What you need is someone that's as good as me. ! John Henry Bonham !!
Posted on 14 years ago
#17
Posts: 392 Threads: 30

From vintagemore2000

510-- the time period your speaking of is only one year, 1922 was when my drum would of existed, 1923 is when the 8 lug heavy brass shell came about, the pioneer shell is thinner compared to the one year difference 1923 shell, so in the day my comparison holds water, the options on that pioneer i had would of bought a 8 lug ludwig all metal snare drum. if i read you right ??

vintagemore2000 - Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean about the year. Ludwig made metal shells from way back. I was just using the catalog that showed the same strainer (improved from the earlier snares and remained for quite some time.) as my Pioneer. Pioneers showed up in the late 20s (the 1928 catalog shows it), and if you feel that the gauge of the brass sheet that was used makes a big difference, that’s cool with me! Am I misunderstanding what your saying about the number of lugs (like the earlier 6 luggers) or can I assume my 8 lugger Pioneer has it up on the 1918 snares I mentioned (the 6 luggers from the catalog, mine tunes just fine.)? I do know that Ludwig offered a 10 lug model early on for their 15” snares (and apparently some 14"ers in the 1924 D catalog at an extra cost, no mention of this in the 1923 cat..). 10 luggers are heavier than 8 and 6 luggers (15” must be the heaviest), so do you feel that extra mass is desirable? How much thicker are the heavier ones?

Are the thicker ones thicker than the 1918 models etc.?

As you can see I'm just learning. Thanks for your input!

“In fact your pedal extremities are a bit obnoxious”. – Fats Waller
Posted on 14 years ago
#18
Posts: 2237 Threads: 272

Yeah good detective work GD! I use my formal dining room. it has a very large table, which i made a very tuff vinyl cover for, but Im single and have no one to tell me no! lol

From GoneDrumming

hehehe too much coffee tonight... :) I really want to be out in the garage but I ran out of kerosene for my heater so I'm stuck in the house..

1960's SONOR 12-16-20-14 blue slate pearl
1968 LUDWIG 12-13-16-22-14Sky blue P
1972 LUDWIG 12-13-16-22-14BlueVistalite
1972 LUDWIG 12-13-16-22-(14 impostor)BlackPanther "SOLD"
1964 Ludwig Oyster Black Pearl 22-12-13-16-14Supra "SOLD"
1969 LUDWIG 12-13-16-22-14 Citrus Mod "SOLD"
1969 LUDWIG Sexto-Plus 8-1 0-12-13-14-15-16-20-20-14 Silver Sparkle
60's Majestic Delux 12-13-16-22-14 red pearl
2009 Homemade Kids 8-10-13-16-12 Orange Sparkle
24 kits, 80 Snares, 65 Cymbals
Don't tell my wife!
Posted on 14 years ago
#19
Posts: 142 Threads: 33

Well now fellas, here comes the inevitable question for all,....

Anyone have the proper throw off, hoops and clips for the hoops for this little snare?

Obviously I'm looking to put humpty dumpty back together again so it can be played,...any help is of course greatly appreciated! ;)

Posted on 14 years ago
#20
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