Only Admins can see this message.
Data Transition still in progress. Some functionality may be limited until the process is complete.
Processing Attachment, Gallery - 126.25470%

Opinions On Bearing Edges

Loading...

I'm such a newbie to the particulars of drums and vintage drums that, as I learn about these things, I find myself a bit confused at times. Bearing edges are a fascination to me. In the Resto section Jaye posted an excellent (imho) overview on this.

I recently had a conversation w/ a good friend (and great drummer) about bearing edges. He recently had a nice custom set made & told me that he felt that the current 'state of the art' in bearing edges, producing excellent tune-ability and purer pitch, is the 'correct' way, with all previous methods being wrong. DOH

As a novice, I felt odd to disagree with him in regard to the realm of vintage drums, but (aside preserving an old drum in its original state), he felt if one is going to actually play the drum(s), it's 'incorrect' to not tweak the bearing edges to a more modern, tune-able condition.

Again, I disagree with this position for a long list of reasons, but I'm curious what members feel about re-cutting vintage edges to modern standards. I personally love the warm-fuzzy, less 'pitched' sound of drums w/ old-school edges.

Wouldn't all of that distinct pitch-ness more often be in conflict with the key that a song is in? [example - a song in B, drums clearly pitched to intervals in C] :confused:

...but when he played on his drum, he made the stars explode....
Posted on 14 years ago
#1
Posts: 3972 Threads: 180
Loading...

Edges vary with each manufacturer. There is no "vintage" edge. Ludwig made drums for a lot of years and sometimes they had slight roundovers, sometimes they had sharper cuts, and sometimes they didn't have any edge at all. Same with Slingerland. Rogers, on the other hand, eventually had a very distinct idea about edges and cut them very sharp at a more extreme angle.

If you own the drums, they are yours to do with as you please. If you sell them later on, the buyers will remind you about keeping vintage gear original.

Posted on 14 years ago
#2
Loading...

I find it is more about tuning the drum than what edges are on it.....

_________________________

MY Dirty Little Collection
Posted on 14 years ago
#3
Loading...

Your subject line pretty much says it all. There are tons of opinions on bearing edges. Many current drum makers stake out their particular bearing edge(s) as important features.

Since this is opinion time, unless an older drum:

a) sounds bad

and

b) has a flawed edge (eg flat spot, dings, wobbly edge etc.)

it makes no sense to me to modify the bearing edge.

As for tunability and pitch; there are broadly two camps for this one, those who tune their drums to pitch and those who don't. I fall into the don't camp, go for a sound that sits with the bassist's sound etc and a progression that works from tom to tom. (Buddy Rich somewhere was quite specific about tensioning rather than tuning his drums. Dave Tough liked to tension rather than tune to notes, etc.)

For your friend, I can see the value of his premise for himself. That doesn't make it a universal rule. Another well established opinion, yes.

Patrick

Posted on 14 years ago
#4
Posts: 2212 Threads: 95
Loading...

Hence the reason we have so many different kits.

Posted on 14 years ago
#5
Loading...

Thanks McJ - I always kinda sorta thought that bearing edges were a product of evolution - ya know, starting basic, from non-existant to probably more rounded, on to the variable edge angles we see thru modern times.

I even was reading about the new Pearl Reference Series with different edges per drum, depending on function.

I can understand them being part of a manufacturer's special features - as you & patrick stated. I guess when I think of 'vintage' sound, it commonly seems less distinct in pitchiness - maybe a transitional factor from hide to plastic heads(?) - It's presently a tonal character I favor... presently ;)

I do gotta say that, I was a little bugged when I got a 13" Ludwig Standard tom on eboy, only to find it had been re-cut - I still have yet to get it to blend the way I want. The seller didn't mention it.

latzanimal - Indeed, the tuning is significant, regardless of new school / old school - ya gotta have a well tuned machine as a whole - though I've learned w/ my MIJ Dixie snare that a funky edge can fight with you way more than my Luddys or Slingys - not to mention head types - OY! - This is all such new ground for me. Thankfully there is a lot of info on this topic around the web - but I feel like it'll take a lifetime (Tony Williams anyone?)

- In tandem with that thought, I really like Patrick's Buddy Rich point on tension rather than notes - a very interesting p.o.v.. - a new thought to me.

I'm having a preference to get intervals I like, at a tension that feels good - and 'right' for each drum - to suit the kit overall - I guess that's what everybody shoots for - from one direction or the other. :rolleyes:

So, there are no hard & fast rules to the "right" way. - - That makes me feel better about the tiny thought on this rolling around in my massive broin - :p HA! I HAVE AN VALID OPINION ON THIS Excited

Great answers all - the wisdom of the collective has spoken Yes Sir

I guess I better keep working on my different kits to get those other flavors - I wanna put real skins on my dad's old 1950s Rogers Champions one of these days.... huh... i was supposed to be independently wealthy by now Laughing H

...but when he played on his drum, he made the stars explode....
Posted on 14 years ago
#6
Posts: 3972 Threads: 180
Loading...

From NewDecade

I do gotta say that, I was a little bugged when I got a 13" Ludwig Standard tom on eboy, only to find it had been re-cut - I still have yet to get it to blend the way I want. The seller didn't mention it.

What's the story on that tom? What finish is it? You might be able to work that edge and round it over a bit to help it blend a smidge better. If you're careful with the sandpaper, it's not too tough to do.

Posted on 14 years ago
#7
Posts: 1971 Threads: 249
Loading...

According to research funded by a grant from the National Science Foundation a double 45 transmits the most energy from the head into the shell.

The researcher could not determine if that was because the head contacted the shell on the flat surface of the head using a double 45, instead of the rounded collar using a full 45 or ... if it was because the energy from the head was transmitted into center portion of the shell rather down the edge of the shell. Maybe a combination of both.

Spaun drum who seems to claim they pioneered the double 45 says it is because it contacts a flat portion of the drum head.

Just sharing the information the way I interpreted it.. I still contend the consistency of the edge is more critical to sound and tune-ability of a drum than the shape of the edge... but I honestly don't know squat about drum edges

Not a Guru... just interested..
Posted on 14 years ago
#8
Loading...

According to research funded by a grant from the National Science Foundation a double 45 transmits the most energy from the head into the shell.The researcher could not determine if that was because the head contacted the shell on the flat surface of the head using a double 45, instead of the rounded collar using a full 45 or ... if it was because the energy from the head was transmitted into center portion of the shell rather down the edge of the shell. Maybe a combination of both.Spaun drum who seems to claim they pioneered the double 45 says it is because it contacts a flat portion of the drum head. Just sharing the information the way I interpreted it.. I still contend the consistency of the edge is more critical to sound and tune-ability of a drum than the shape of the edge... but I honestly don't know squat about drum edges

Here's the study, if anyone's interested...

http://online.physics.uiuc.edu/courses/phys498pom/NSF_REU_Reports/2003_reu/Eric_Macaulay_Final_Paper.pdf

1970 Ludwig Downbeat
1965 Ludwig Hollywood
1970 Ludwig Jazzette
Posted on 14 years ago
#9
Posts: 2433 Threads: 483
Loading...

"Edges" are one area drummers did,nt think about 30+ yrs ago,did you if you,re old enough to remember?..i did,nt.What was big in the industry back then was the introduction of plastic heads and all the wonderful versions of the same thing.As an ex builder i agree that edges are somewhat important,but,not as important as a level drum,and some basic knowledge of tuning techniques.Replace heads when they stretch out,which is common with single ply heads and played at tight tension.Buddy changed heads often,even the bass drum....IMO,some of us need to find the missing link that will turn a drum sound completely around and go HA-HA!!..Thats it!,i,ve discovered whats been wrong with drums all these years...ITS THE EDGES!!!...Sorry to disagree.There are a handful of re-inventors out there that will swear they hold the secret to perfection of the drum sound,but they dont...I,d like to see more studies on the affect of various snare beds,and the theory behind it.After all,the snare drum is the heart of the kitCoffee Break2..........Great topic for discussion by the way!

Hit like you mean it!!
Posted on 14 years ago
#10
  • Share
  • Report
Action Another action Something else here