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Ludwig's change to lug positioning, 1968?

Posts: 304 Threads: 57

Hi guys,

My apologies for inadvertently hijacking Jaghog's thread on Ludwig scarf joints, with a discussion of Ludwig's change in lug positioning in approximately 1968. So, I'll start a thread specific to this subject.

O-Lugs mentioned noticing a difference in lug positioning between a 1967 and a 1969 12" tom. The lugs on the 1969 tom were closer to the edge of the shell.

Here are the results of a very limited survey (my two born-together "Hollywood" kits). One is a Fall 1966 and the other is a Dec 1968. The photos below are of the Dec 1968 drums.

The simplest way for us to identify the differences is to measure the space between the BOTTOM of the lugs, rather than the space between the top of the lugs and the edge of the shell.

The 1968 12" tom (with small lugs) measured 2" between the bottom of the lugs. The 1966 12" tom measured 1 3/4", a difference of 1/4".

The 1968 13" tom (large lugs of course) measured 15/16" between the bottom of the lugs. The 1966 13" tom measured 11/16", again a difference of 1/4".

The 1968 16" floor tom measured 7 3/8" between the bottom of the lugs. The 1966 16" floor tom measured 6 7/8", a difference of 1/2".

The 1968 22" bass drum measured 5 5/8" between the bottom of the lugs. The 1966 22" bass drum measured 4 7/8", a difference of 3/4".

Ludwig buffs: it would be interesting if we can narrow down the changeover to something less than 1967-1969, although this change was likely a transition, and not a hard-date changeover.

Unfortunately, the reason for this seemingly inconsequential change in production will remain a mystery, for now.

Another question would be: Does the lug repositioning have anything to do with elimination of the scarf joint?

Regards, and Merry Christmas! MB

Posted on 3 years ago
#1
Posts: 5176 Threads: 188

Hey Marty!

Thanks for starting this thread!

My 1969 12" tom tom also measures exactly 2" from bottom-to-bottom of the lugs! I can't provide a picture at the moment. I will have to extract my 1967 12" tom tom from storage and measures it...but I'm sure it will match your findings.

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 3 years ago
#2
Posts: 2010 Threads: 19

Perhaps the bean counters figured that by simply changing the position of the lugs closer to the edge of the shells (which would cost nothing to implement other than changing the measurements) they could utilize shorter tension rods, thereby saving on materials. The cost per rod would be tiny but added up over the thousands of tension rods they were making (or buying) it could become quite a significant amount of $ from a minor change.

Of course if they moved the lugs further from the heads then this idea is wrong. Perhaps they started buying tension rods rather than making their own and had to shift lug placement to accommodate the standard lengths they could order.

Posted on 2 years ago
#3
Posts: 5550 Threads: 576

As to borrow from my thread

If it Was a design change to incorporate the new lugs for the standards

It could very well of been a utilitarian simple production change to eliminate t rod difference .

April 2nd 1969 scarfed pink champagne holly wood and 65/66 downbeat snare, and , supra same year very minty kit old pies
66/67 downbeat with canister
Super 400 small round knob
1967 super classic obp





once the brass ceases to glitter, and the drum looses its luster, and the stage remains dark, all you have left is the timbre of family.
Posted on 2 years ago
#4
Posts: 2010 Threads: 19

From jaghog

As to borrow from my thread If it Was a design change to incorporate the new lugs for the standards It could very well of been a utilitarian simple production change to eliminate t rod difference .

Several production details were changed around 1968 and I don't think it's completely coincidental that they started building the Standard series drums right alongside the Classic drums at that same time.

Posted on 2 years ago
#5
Posts: 141 Threads: 12

This is interesting thread. Just in working on my own drums and other drums I have noticed a TON of variation in lug design, and also thought I noticed a difference in location but chalked it up to a few too many that night while finishing up? I never thought to take a tape and SEE if there was a difference. Its been quite a while since I have dated my WMP set, but give me a few to see and I will take a tape to them as well.

Ok...pulled my 13" tom down. Serial is 558691, so '68 (which I thought they were). PO painted the insides of my shells, I can't give a good exact date. I have looked at it till I am blue in the face and its 11/16".

I will pull the rest down and measure later...but this would kind of point at '68 as being the transition year. Early '68 maybe being 11/16, and switched mid '68 to the 15/16" spacing.

If I had to bet, I would say Ludwig found a reason to decrease the lug length to line up with a single larger purchasing contract. I doubt they made tension rods in house, but if you can double the size of your EAU by simply moving lug spacing (0 cost) and re-negotiate a slightly better purchase price AND reduce part complexity...those are massive wins.

Posted on 2 years ago
#6
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